Siler Frizzen Hardening

[RwBeV]

I tried to re-harden a Siler frizzen from a gun that I built for a friend of mine about 20 years ago. I got it cherry red and quenched it in oil and it came out not dead soft but not hard enough to spark. I tried a little more heat with the same results. I ended up using Kasenit and it worked just fine then. I have built dozens of Siler lock kits and have had no trouble getting them to spark. I asked another builder friend of mine about it and he said that he has always had trouble getting Siler frizzens to re-harden. My question is why would they harden the first time but then not re-harden?

Thanks
Bob

 

[Zonie]

IMO, if it was just "red" it was too cool to reach the temperature needed to harden it.

The frizzen should be bright orange/red and instantly dumped into the oil to quench it.

If it had been heated to a orange/yellow range while annealing it, it may have burned off some of its carbon on the surface layer. Then reheating it to orange/red would harden the substrate but the surface layer would appear to be soft.

An advantage of using Kasenit is it keeps the carbon level high by covering the surface with itself. This not only adds a small bit of carbon but it keeps the oxygen in the air away from the surface. The coating also helps keep the steel at the elevated temperature while it is on the way from the flame to the quench. Then, assuming the steel is in the orange/red 1450+ F temperature range it will pop off the Kasenit and quench properly.

At least that's my guess. :grin:

 

[RwBeV]

I said cherry red but its in orange range when I quench. I use the same process when I harden the frizzens from the kits and have never had a problem. I just curious as to why it wouldn't re-harden.

 

[fitter]

Good guess! Every time it is heated carbon is lost.Bud Siler told me this many years ago. Iknow they are 1095 now, but I don't know what steel he used to use.

 

[RwBeV]

Man thats one man I liked talking to, (Bud) back way back when I was just starting to build (I found out TC kits didn't count)I was given a Siler kit that was missing parts. I called Siler expecting a secretary and Bud answered the phone. I told him that I was just starting out and what I needed and that I just needed a price. He talked to me for about an hour I guess and then told me he was sending me the parts and just send the money when I could, that he had never been stiffed by a Black Powder person yet. I busted my you know what to get him the money.

Bob