Sharpening stone differences

[barebackjack]

It seems stones made by different manufacturers use a different system of categorizing their grit. The ones that use coarse, medium, and fine are pretty self explanatory.

I have a opportunity to buy a bunch of stones real cheap. They are arkansas stones labeled as "hard" and "soft". What does this mean? Im assuming that the soft stones are coarser and thus used to hog off material and the hard is used to put the final edge on?

Also, is there any difference between arkansas stones and india stones?

Thanks

 

[Norskie]

I have a soft and a hard Arkansas stone and the soft stone is not particularly coarser than the hard, although its easier to keep clean. It does not seem to cut faster. I'm told these are naturally occurring minerals.
Never used an india stone, so I can't compare.
I use a 2 side carborundum for most sharpening, and the hard Arkansas for final honing on blades where I don't want too much 'toothiness'.
Moose

 

[George Holton]

Before you spend much money, go on line and hunt up "Scary Sharp" Works great cheap andyou get edges that are scary sharp. :v

 

[Stubert]

I have been using diamond stones the last couple of years. DM brand I think. My knives are shaving sharp with very little effort, My friends all know to be careful when you borrow a knife from me. I use only the medium grit (blue stone) you can dry shave the hair off your arm.

 

[paulvallandigham]

There may not be much difference in the grit size in the arkansas soft, and hard, stones, but they do cut differently, and about as you have predicted. Knife sharpening is a 3 stage process, and you can't cut corners unless you intend to sharpen that knife all day long as you use it.

The first step is to put a shallow bevel on both sides of the blade- say about 25 degree total angle. When you have worked a burr up on the edge on both sides, change from the " soft " stone, to the hard.

Second step:Now increase the angle to about 40 degrees, and work up a burr on both sides of the blade, one side at a time. It will be a very small burr, because the hard stones are cutting only a very thin edge.

Third Step: Use an old belt, or straping made of a strong fiber, and strop the edge on the belt to remove that fine burr edge on the blade.

You sharpen the blade by pulling or pushing the blade edge into the stone, as if you were cutting off a thin layer. You strop the blade by drawing the back of the blade over the belt, so that you are pulling the burrs off the blade's edge.

When you have removed all the burrs, you will have a very fine edge, that is supported by that early bevel( stage one), and has a stropped edge that has no chips or cuts in it, and will do a lot of work for you before you have to return to the fine stone. Use a good rust dissolving oil, like Liquid Wrench, or Break free on the soft stone during use. That floats the large chips of steel in the oil, and makes them much easier to remove. That will help dissolve the fine edges of chips of metal that get caught in the surface of the stone, and make cleaning the stone easier.

Use the hard stone dry, but clean it by using the rust- dissolving oils on it to loosen the bits of steel that get into its surface.

Keep your stones clean. If you see shine glinting off the surface, that is caused by steel bits embedded in the surface, and you need to get them out for the stone to be able to cut well.You may have to coat the stone with Liquid Wrench, or Break free and leave it there for several hours for the additives in those oils to dissolve the steel bits. I have left my stones sit out with oil on them over night, and then cleaned them off in the morning. I currently have a " Washita " or medicum grit stone, and a Black Arkansas, or " Hard ( fine grit) stone, which I use to sharpen knives, and chisels, etc. Hard stones come in different colors now, than Black, so buy them on the base of how smooth they feel, and not the color. I have seen hard stones colored red, green, and brown, that were every bit as good as my old Black stone.

I do have a cheap, coarse, Carburundum stone I picked up at a flea market for a $1, and I use that when I have to take off a lot of metal fast. It is not used in sharpening any knife, but I have used it to sharpen the edge of a shovel, and to take a terrible dink out of an old axe so I did not have to use my grinder to do that job.

 

[jr06]

I use Japanese water stones. They cut fast, there is no mess and best of all, they don't clog. The one drawback is that they wear faster but for perfectionists, they can be flattened. 1000 grit is good for general sharpening but they come in much finer grits.

 

Amen to japanise water stones. Thry are used to sharpen samuari swords, I belive they have a reputation for being pretty sharp.

 

[johnathon]

Hi needed to jump in here, there is a lot of talk on sharpening voodoo and all. If you are using oil stones OIL is the last thing to use on them lubricating the cutting stone does nothing but slow the cutting action , kerosene is the best, floats away the swarf but allows the stone to cut. This is my stock and trade as a furniture builder who actually uses planes and chisels all day. That said my opinion is the diamond stones followed by a fine ceramic is hard to beat

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Ditto, cheap, easy, and one of the best systems for sharpening my wood chisels also.

 

[WRussell]

Now is probably a good time to buy stones, since many folks are switching to diamond. Try them side by side and I think you'll go with diamonds and never look back. Cut much faster, don't wear/dish, don't clog as easy... I still use an Arkansas slip and a burnisher to finish up, but the diamonds are the workhorse.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Jonathon: ?The two products I names are NOT oils. They are kerosene based solvents, with some oxydizers added to break through rusty bolts and screw threads. I found that they do a terrific job of loosening the bits of steel in my softer stones, so that I could wash them away and wipe them up with paper towels. I am the last person to recommend the use of any oil on a sharpeneing stone !

As to the diamond stones, I found that new diamond cutters take off almost too much metal, but that they wear down fairly quickly and reach a point where they are much finer than their rating. As long as that is understood, you can get good use out of them. I use ceramics for sharpening only when I don't have my stones handy. Ceramics are very fine, and can be used to restore the second edge, or final edge, provided that you then strop the knive after using the ceramic sharpener. If you don't you leave small burrs, that catch, and will tear holes in the blade as they are torn off in use. The tears in the blade dull it, and you eventually have to go back to the soft stones to put a new bevel the length of the blade, starting all over again. If you strop, you can save that edge for weeks and even months, without having to go back and start making a new bevel and edge from scratch.

To prove that last statement, I sharpened the knives for a professional chef who ran a one man kitchen in a small hotel and bar. He had been having his knives sharpened weekly by a knife sharpening service, that ground a single bevel on his knives, didn't use a strop. The result was that within a week, the knives all needed to be resharpened. It was costing him 10% of his income to have those knives sharpened ! After I sharpened his knives, I asked him to use them as normal, and checked back with him each week, As I was a personal friend of the owner. He went 6 weeks before he asked me to resharpen two of about 10 knives I had sharpened for him. It took me less than 10 minutes to restore the two blades, and he went another 6 weeks, and was shaking his head when he finally asked me to touch them up again. He told me the knife sharpening service guy had stopped coming by, and just left his card for the chef to call him if he ever needed his knives sharpened again. The chef sat down with me, and asked me to write out basically what I have written above, because he wanted to get his own stones, and wanted to know again how I used them. He told me even at the Culinary school he attended they did not have knives as sharp as I had done to his. ( I believe it, based on the cooking channel shows I have seen.)

 

[barebackjack]

Im mostly interested in stones for chisel and graver maintanence. Im sure diamond is much much better to use on a graver? But will stones work for gravers?
Also, I hear alot about "charging" a leather strope with polishing compound or something. Is this a must or can you just strope on the plain leather?
Do you all strope your chisels and gravers as well?
If anybody can PM me or post it on here for all some detailed sharpening instructions for chisels and square gravers id be much appreciative and im sure alot of others would too.

Ive never used a stone on a knife. 15 years in the fur business and all ive ever needed was a stroker and a steel. Ive got the knife sharpening down pat, but the chisels and gravers scare me a bit. I know all to well how improper sharpening can ruin sharp edges (it was a pet peeve of my old man when i was just starting to skin for him).

Thanks for all the help and info guys.