rifling question

[mlo]

Hello

I am looking for some input regarding a rifle I recently aquired. The rifle is a heavy bench gun with a barrel diameter of 1.8" with a false muzzle. the bore diameter is .477 the groove diameter .485. The twist is in the neighborhood of 1-65". I was aware of this information at the time I won the bid on the rifle, what surprised me when I received the rifle was that the rifling consisted of 14 lands and grooves of equal width. Anyone out there familiar with this type rifling?
The rifle was made by Marshall Tidd, Woburn, Mass, the barrel is a Remington. What I can find regarding Mr. Tidd was that he was active during the 1860's.

Thank you for any input.

Mike O.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Sounds like a very interesting new acquisition for you. Some pictures would be of interest here.
Throughout history all kinds of rifling variations have been tried. There have been rifles with as few as two lands and grooves up to many, like yours. Maybe somebody here can give you specific history, that would be interesting. However, all you really need/want to know is how it shoots. Did you get a ball mold with the rifle? If not, you will have some experimenting to do. But, that is what is a big part of bench rest shooting is all about. Tinkering and trying every conceivable, and inconceivable ball/patch/lube/charge/mantra combination in the world. Keep us informed of your progress with that new rifle. And, good luck. Enjoy.

 

[paulvallandigham]

ADvice: Join the NMLRA. Then, call the main office and ask them to give you the names of some of the slug gun shooters, along with contact information. They are more likely than anyone else I know to have some idea about the maker, the gun, the grooves, etc.

When you begin receiving Muzzle Blasts, the monthly magazine for the NMRLA, you will get a list of NMLRA STATE representatives, for all the states, including your own. This may also be available on the NMLRA website.

Call these people. They will know where the nearest clubs and ranges are to you, and probably will have a better idea who in your area knows about this kind of bench gun, so you can get some hands-on help in learning how to shoot it.

I happen to be a friend of George Mitchell, who has been a slug gun shooter for most of his adult life. He lives here near Sidney, Il. outside of Urbana. He owns several bench guns made during the 19th century, going back to the 1840s. He also built his own gun, and restored some of these antiques he collected, and has since fired. If anyone I know would have an answer to your question about the rifling of your barrel, he would be my first "guess". My second choice to ask would be long-time barrel maker, gun builder, and Champion rifle and pistol shooter, Phil Quaglino, of Havannah, Florida. He also happens to be a "Field Rep". for the NMLRA. He made thousands of barrels for both MLers, and modern guns, over his life time, and if anyone would know about the use of 14 grooves and lands in a .47 cal. barrel, he will.

Welcome to the forum. :thumbsup: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Paul, I would think that with a 1:65" twist that would be a round ball rifle and not a slug gun.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yes, You are correct. Thank you for catching my mistake. I overlooked that information about the ROT. :redface: :shocked2: :surrender: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Yes, You are correct. Thank you for catching my mistake. I overlooked that information about the ROT. :redface: :shocked2: :surrender: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

At least I said it perlite like. :wink:

 

[mlo]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the input. I am looking forward to trying to get the thing shooting. I will have to find a round ball mould of the correct size. With the bore being .477 I suppose I should order the mould to drop the ball at .467 or maybe a little larger?? I see there is a fella that adversizes brass ball moulds any dia.size in the classifid adds in the Muzzle Blasts magazine.

Thanks again

Mike O.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the input. I am looking forward to trying to get the thing shooting. I will have to find a round ball mould of the correct size. With the bore being .477 I suppose I should order the mould to drop the ball at .467 or maybe a little larger?? I see there is a fella that adversizes brass ball moulds any dia.size in the classifid adds in the Muzzle Blasts magazine.

Thanks again

Mike O.

I really hate to see you guessing at the right ball size. For serious benchrest shooting everything has to be dialed in perzactly. I dunno if there is a ml benchrest devoted forum but you might do some searching and ask advice before spending money on a mold, or several, that won't give optimum results for you. Second best might be to send a slug to Jeff Tanner and go with his reccomendation.

 

[fho]

Call Ed Rayl
I got a .470 mould from him. He may have another. His phone number is 304-364-8269.

 

[Okwaho]

I agree as to Ed Rayl and you might look into the Sgt Alvin C York Black Powder Shoot held annually in Pall Mall, Tenn. north of Crossville,Tn.Next year's shoot is scheduled for March 26,2012.This is the "biggie" and draws a lot of serious chunk gun shooters. :v
Tom Patton

 

[Tumblernotch]

Well, what mlo has here is a bench gun and not a chunk gun. But, like you said the York shoot is a good place to ask barrel makers for advice about the rifling and proper mold. Some of the top makers show up there every year. Paul Griffith, Wayne jenkins, Charlie Burton, Bob Hoyt, the Rice boys and others. He's bound to get a good answer there, even if they don't all agree!

 

[Okwaho]

Well,I never said that Mlo's gun was a chunk gun only that a lot of serious chunk gun shooters come to the York shoot every year.A lot of them even dress in attire as would have been seen in the late 19th and early 20th centuries in traditional Southern mountain shooting matches. Jerry Noble shows several pictures,especially the cover of Vol.1.Besides Mlo's gun probably wouldn't be allowed with its false muzzle and possible adjustable rear sight.

I just tend to refer to those extremely heavy {20 lbs.or so} rifles either flintlock or percussion as "chunk guns" and I was recently offered one in flint but passed.

Google up "chunk guns" and also see Muzzle Blasts Online April/May 1998 Volume 3 No. 2.
Chunk 101: An intro to over-the-log Match Shooting by Lowell C.Card :bow: :v
Tom Patton

 

[Tumblernotch]

Didn't mean to come across that way, but since bench guns ain't discussed that much on here I figured some on here might get them confused. I believe that some shooters may believe that a chunk gun is called that because of its weight or bulk. That description would fit heavy bench guns and many guns used for over-the-log or chunk gun shooting. But the term chunk describes the block of wood or log we rest our rifles on. Although I must say that the many adjustable chunks used now wouldn't fit that description. You're right. A gun with a false muzzle wouldn't pass muster at a chunk gun match. You might get by with adjustable sights at some matches, but not the York. I have seen them in the past accept one that way but the sight had to be solidly taped down with electrical tape and rendered non-adjustable. They may have changed that rule one way or the other since, but if I remember right they're still a no-no.

My chunk gun weighs in at 17 1/2 lbs. and is a lightweight compared to some. With proper sights, it could be used as a bench gun, although it is too heavy for the light bench class and way too light for the heavy class. You should have gotten the one offered if it's a good shooter. Other than having to get up and down and totin' them around they're a lot of fun.
:thumbsup:

 

[Okwaho]

No offence taken.I have never owned a chunk gun although I formerly collected Tennessee rifles. The gun I passed on was an old one and may have been a Soddy gun but the asking price was about $1500 and I knew I would have a hard time selling it.Like most guns of this type it was rather clunky, not an attractive piece. Another person offered $1000 cash and was turned down.Ron Borron was building one and I saw the barrel at either Mel's show or Norris.It should be done by then and he may bring it or I may see it at the York shoot if I go there. :bow: :v
Tom Patton

 

[Tumblernotch]

Ron's will certainly be an attractive one I'm sure. And accurate. I'll keep my eyes open for it at the York. Some of them are works of art but some are pretty hideous. But that doesn't mean they don't shoot good! Mine falls in between. A plain Jane but she looks like a gun. A friend of mine offered me a heavy bench gun from his collection, but the cost was more than I can handle. Wasn't a bad price but I don't see myself getting into bench shooting right now and can't afford to invest. Some of his guns weigh upwards of 60 lbs. He's won the National Championship a few times and also the York shoot a couple of times.