Pure Lead Balls

[gjr902]

I got my first deer with my new flint lock last week. The 80 grains of FF pushed my .490 Hornady round ball 35 yards to the deer (110lbs doe).

The ball penatrated, broke a rib, passed through both lungs, the top of the stomach, nicked the liver, passed between the ribs on the other side, and stopped in the hide.

Why didnt the ball pass through the deer? I felt 80 grains should be enough powder to do the job and pass through. I'm thinking about 2 different options. #1 uping my load to 90-100 grain. #2 Use a harder lead ball.

I had no blood trail, for 2 reasons. 1 no pass through, and 2 the grass from the stomach plugged the entrance hole. If the ball passed through, there would have been blood. I realize the deer was dead on impact, and still ran 75 yards. I'm concerned about not finding a deer, if the ball doesnt pass through, and leaves no blood.

I dont have alot of experiance killing and tracking deer, so this may be normal, and I'm just worrying for nothing.

Any help is greatly appriciated.

 

[Huntin_Dawg1215]

I have had that same problem with some of the new style bullits for m/l, such as the shock wave. Had that problem with prbs also. I have wrote it up as it just happens,it dont happen every time.

Shoot what your rifle likes and whar is accurent, that load shouldbe plenty. Also remeber that when the round ball starts through the deers body and it makes on contact with all the orgins and tissue that will start slowing it down, which effects penetration.

Two things that I keep in mindatall times hunting are shot placement and tracking, work on them at all times and every timeyou can.

Hope this make sense.

 

[Robby]

If the ball has lost enough momentum passing through the body, the hide on the off side acts pretty much like a safety net in capturing it. I have seen slo-mo video of this and it appears that the hide stretched out to eight or more inches before returning to its normal shape.
Robby

 

[Yankee Doodle]

This is exactly the reason I became a maverick and stopped using PRBs for big game in anything smaller than my .58. For my .50, and .54 I am strictly a conical shooter. I want exit holes. Big honkin' exit holes. A PRB in the .58 will shoot through anything I will ever hunt with it. Where I hunt, we are in THICK woods. Without a good blood trail, you may never find the deer.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I am no fan of a PRB for hunting but there is a reason for what you saw. Your velocity at the range you shot that deer at was still pretty high. I have seen animals shot with 270's, 30-06's, and many magnums at that close range. For the most part it is hit or miss if the centerfires will fully penetrate. Velocity is the key. I bet the PRB was flat as a pancake.
The only projectile I have seen that has penetrated from 50 yards to 150 with absolute full penetration every time has been my Paper Patched conicals I make. No matter the angle, no matter the distance, velocity, or animal they have all fully penetrated. A fast twist is required for these big 460 gr bullets. Ron

 

[Little Wattsy]

Well the .50 is not much more then a squirel gun really.
Now the .54, THAT is a gun!! Never had anything less then than a clean pass through with my RB's from that.
But seriously it all comes down to velocity and mass...
AND it sounds like she was quartering.
AND she is dead and thats the important thing.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Here is another tread that might help shed some light too... http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/225217/

 

[Billnpatti]

You don't want harder lead. Ideally, the lead should be soft enough to deform into a flatter, more disc-like projectile that is larger than the ball was when it was loaded. In other words, it should expand just like a modern bullet and hard lead is less likely to do this. 80 grains of 3f powder ought to be plenty to kill a deer. I know some folks will go as high as 120 grains but that just is as punishing to the shooter as it is to the deer. A well placed shot like you describe will kill a deer but it is not unusual for one to go 100 yards before falling down. It is not hard to find a deer within 100 yards of where you shot it, even with little to no blood trail. Just watch which way it ran and then go in that direction. A mortally wounded deer is going to follow the path of least resistance so you do the same and you will find it. 80 grains in a .50 cal will be plenty to bag your deer. Focus less on your load because it is fine. Focus more on shot placement and developing your tracking skills.

 

[Matt85]

Well the .50 is not much more then a squirel gun really.

:rotf:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/272568/fromsearch/1/hl/grndhntr/tp/1/

back on topic: you will not always get a complete pass threw. this applies to all firearms and all legal hunting calibers. as others have said, even using modern cartridges you will not always get a complete pass threw.

-matt

 

[Roguedog]

Part of the challenge and fun of shooting traditional equipment. I have had poor blood trails as well on mortally shot deer. But, my tracking skills have improved a lot as a result. I feel like shooting patched roundballs with traditional equipment is making me a better hunter in more ways than one.

Jeff

 

[gjr902]

Thanks everyone. I feel better about my load and ball. This was my first deer with a round ball, and I guess I expected something different than what I got.

Yes the ball pancaked, and it did quite a bit of damage inside the deer. I knew I made a good shot, but I missed the hair on the ground, and no blood scared me a bit. My hunting partner found the hair at the impact site and knew I hit it. Had I not hit the stomach, the entrance hole most likely wouldnt have plugged and I would have had some blood. She did start coughing blood at 60-65 yard, and dropped at 75 yards.

It is a nice to have recovered the ball. Its a cool souvenir of my first hunt with this gun.

 

[George T.]

When the ball is found in the animal 100% of the available energy was dumped into the animal. All remaining energy in a bullet that exits is wasted! I have killed and seen killed several Texas Hill Country (small) deer killed with a 40 cal.. These were 96 grain 398 balls over 90 grains of FFF, The ball was always under the off side hide looking like a dome about the size if a nickle. There was a poker chip sized bruise on the green hide. I always wondered how far out it went before it snapped back. If you raise your powder charge a little it may give slightly higher muzzle velocity depending on barrel length! Good Job! Geo. T.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Now the .40 truely IS a squirl gun but then the Texas deer are in actuality just realy big squirls... :grin: :grin: :grin:

 

[Stumpkiller]

The ball penatrated, broke a rib, passed through both lungs, the top of the stomach, nicked the liver, passed between the ribs on the other side, and stopped in the hide.

Why didnt the ball pass through the deer?

The order is a bit off as the liver is between the lungs and stomach. If the ball hit the stomach after the vitals it is like hitting a big, wet hay bale and robs energy VERY quickly. Especially round balls.

I'm no fan or conicals in flintlocks and, if you are worried, you might consider upping the powder. I use 90 gr FFg in my .50 and the only ball I have recovered went the length of a deer (32") and was just under the hide after tunneling around the femur.

 

[Zonie]

gjr902

Just speculating here but I think the ball got considerably larger and lost a lot of energy when it hit the rib going in.

The enlarged diameter ball would have lost energy quickly as it passed thru the other organs so by the time it reached the other side it couldn't break thru the hide.

Had it not hit the bone going in, it still would have expanded a little less but it would have gone thru tearing up things as it passed completely thru the deer and out the other side.

 

[M. De Land]

Yeah, I'm thinking the wet grass in the paunch is what really slowed the ball down.
I have my issues with conical lead bullets though as I once ruined a barrel with one that worked up bore after carrying it all day before shooting. I used to have a tendency to carry the rifle muzzle downward under my arm probably from my old shot gunning days on the farm. MD

 

[alex efremenko]

You guys are applying modern logic and expectations on 250+ year old technonlogy.I lost count many years ago how many deer and other critters I've shot with a ML. The short of it is: If you poke a hole in the right spot the animal will die,and die quickly.Who cares if the ball did not exit. I have had .338 Win. Mags that did not exit elk.Was I undergunned ballistically? They call them "primitive weapons for a reason.

gjr902, Good job on the deer :hatsoff: , I've had balls with 50 grains of powder pass through deer.It depends what you hit on the inside.

 

[Rifleman1776]

There was nothing wrong with the performance of your ball. Did the deer complain about lack of an exit wound? :shocked2: There are many who feel what you experienced was the perfect scenario with a soft lead ball. Brag time, I guess, all the deer I have shot dropped where they stood or took what I call 'reaction leaps' and went, maybe, 20 yards. All I have killed were dropped with a .45 cal. soft leat prb and a 65 gr. charge.
I understand many feel if an exit wound is not present something is wrong. That's a myth but folks are free to believe whatever they wish.
Ye dun gud. :hatsoff: And so did yer rifle gun and lead ball.

 

[robinsroost]

Ron, How about a little instruction on how you make your paper patched bullets? Thanks, Robin

 

[outbackzack]

Wait till you find your ball in pieces with separate wound channels under the hide on the off side, then you really scratch your head. :thumbsup: