PRB...Not for me

[Runner]

Luckily the temps have dropped here, so the Weekend opener should be chilly and wet. I am going to snuggle up in a ground blind and sit the first two days I think.
This is way off topic tho.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Yeah but hey, The entire thread is :rotf:

 

[Slamfire]

How then were archeologists able to pick up, in their own words, "a great number of conical bullets" on the battlefield at Saratoga?

Interesting, got pictures or at least a source for that information?

The best I can do for you is a faulty old man's memory. On the Discovery, or History or Learning Channel there were a series of shows called the Battlefield Detectives. Using metal detectors they searched battlefields for projectiles buried on the field. They were primarialy looking for concentrations to check against the official reports. I've not seen a rerun for several years. The conicals actually shown looked more like Buffalo's Ballets than anything else.
It is ok to say this never happened, until you find evidence of that very thing. Then you have to open your mind, and do a thourough investigation of the evidence. Just saying, "nope, never happened" doesn't advance knowledege very far.
:shake:

 

[Blizzard of '93]

History Channel, around 5-6 years back.

 

[Mike Brooks]

:yakyak: :surrender:

 

[shootemup]

:snore:

 

[Runner]

So, a TV program is your evidence that conicals were used by a percentage of the population of the US before 1840?

 

[Blizzard of '93]

no, as I stated earlier a Redcoat officer had made some slugs (IIRC they had a wood 'plug' in the base of) that was used by the Redcoat riflemen (snipers?) they were not a common infantry load. did they shoot 'better' than the RB's? likely, particular at longer distance but I've never seen any documents as to the effectiveness of.

 

[Runner]

Documentation of this so called British officer issuing none standard weapons to Crown soilders at that time? Can we even get that?
By the way, did you know that aiming a gun was heavily discouraged by the British and that they did not use snipers in the battle you are discussing?

 

One time I found a bunch of old carberator parts by an old arrow head. No kiddin'! Archeological evidence, proof positive that the old time indians had carberators. :blah: I don't know what they used 'em for though. Just carberator parts and an old arrow head and nothing else. No tires or nothing. :rotf: :rotf:

This ain't aimed at you Mike. I just like the :yakyak: icon. Figured it was as good a place as any to throw my 2 pesos in.

 

[brubincam]

when I'm looking for arrowheads I always find golf balls ,,,I tell people I didn't know Indians played golf.... :youcrazy: :youcrazy: :youcrazy:

 

[brubincam]

OH YEAH,,,found a set of false teeth once,,,did Indians use them???

 

[gmww]

I knew they had clubs. But seriously the more we dig into our past the more we are often surprised to find our previous beliefs and theories change. At any rate I believe Dr. David R. Starbuck might be the fella they were talking about. Here is a brief quote from the Plymouth State University's site about Dr. David R. Starbuck.

David Starbuck is an historical and industrial archaeologist who specializes in 18th century military excavations and the archaeology of the Shakers. He also directs summer excavations in Scotland, working with medieval and post-medieval sites on Loch Lomond. David teaches courses in archaeology and physical anthropology and provides field work opportunities to students in these areas.

David is currently the editor of the New Hampshire Archeological Society, the New England Chapters of the Society for Industrial Archeology and the Newsletter of the Council for Northeast Historical Archaeology. He is the Northeast Editor for the Society for Historical Archaeology. He is the author of numerous books, including The Great Warpath, Massacre at Fort William Henry, Rangers and Redcoats on the Hudson, A Shaker Family Album, and Neither Plain Nor Simple (all published by University Press of New England).

David's work was recently featured on The History Channel in the series "Investigating History." The show was entitled "Buried Secrets of the Revolutionary War" and described the work conducted by David and his forensics team analyzing the remains of Jane McCrea, the Scottish-Presbyterian woman who was murdered and scalped by Indians in 1777.

David has received the Chester Price Award from the New Hampshire Archeological Society for "outstanding contributions to the cause of New Hampshire Archeology" and the Norton Prize from the Society for Industrial Archeology. He is a Fellow of the New York State Archaeological Association.

Someone might want to email him to see if conicals were found. It would be quite interesting. And no I'm not interested in doing it. I got to work on a knife and help my daughter with her Underhammer build.

 

[tg]

"This thread is getting kind of amusing...I'm deer hunting this season with"

All of your gear while modern designed and manufactured pretty much puts you on the same playing field as a hunter in the 1830ish period. the modern adjustable sight is a wildcard but you have the basics...this conical thing though is different, the new designed conicals offer a huge ballistic and accuracy advatage over the original styles, that is where I see the rub, they go hand in hand with the new long range modern designed ML's and should not be considered traditional projectiles, a swaged rb has no advantage over a cast one, this is what draws the line betwen the old and the new form and function, if it looks like an original and performs at the same level with out being superior then it can be considered a traditional item, the sttel barrel shoot comparable to the iron ones, there are many little things we can pick at and compare but the projectile is a big factor along with basic gun design and sights, the wide use of modern sights and bulest is undoubtedly what oaved the way for that which Mr. Knight unleashed on the mL community years ago.I one REALY wants to hunt with traditional gear..there are some replica bullet types around.But the more we accept the modern bullets and call them traditional the farther from the roots of this sport we drift, taking any newcommers with us, use the new bullets if that is what you prefer, but please do not refer to them as traditional projectiles, it taints the very essence of the traditional spirit.
BTW I suspect many of the REV WAR connicals found may have been the sugar loaf bullet a solid bullit with a bit of a point on top, it may look like some of the new ones but the results on a test range would likely show a tremendous difference, and as I stated before I could not find one manufacture who claimedant connection with theri bullest to anything from the past, so if the makers of the bullits do not claim them to be traditional how can we? Don't use 'em, don't dislike 'em, don't like to hear them classified as Traitional projectiles

 

OH YEAH,,,found a set of false teeth once,,,did Indians use them???

Yep! Right along with the carburators and the Rev War conicals!!! :rotf:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Luckily the temps have dropped here, so the Weekend opener should be chilly and wet.

I know what you mean, temps are dropping here too, heck, it is even supposed to get down into the high 70's.:wink:
[url] http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=86436[/url]

 

[TANSTAAFL]

OH YEAH,,,found a set of false teeth once,,,did Indians use them???

Nope, but the father of our country, George Washington did, and the uppers and lowers were spring loaded hinged in the back. :grin:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

IMO, the History Channel is a 90% historical farce.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

no, as I stated earlier a Redcoat officer had made some slugs (IIRC they had a wood 'plug' in the base of) that was used by the Redcoat riflemen (snipers?) they were not a common infantry load. did they shoot 'better' than the RB's? likely, particular at longer distance but I've never seen any documents as to the effectiveness of.

British officer by the name of Norton invented the hollow based bullet in the 1820's, another Brit by the name of Greener came up with wooden plug in the hollow base in the 1830's. Minie, the Frenchman, stuck an iron base into his first Minnie ball in the late 1840's, Minnie ball was later refined, and the iron base proved unnecessary.


Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H.L. Mencken

 

[Blizzard of '93]

after some checking I found the Redcoats had 'sniper rifles' in 1776, the 'tower rifle' and the 'Ferguson rifle' neither was ever a standard infantry issue, the Tower rifle could take a bayonet however. both were used in the Revolutionary War.