Practical accuracy for a Muzzleloader

[KRUNK]

Hey Folks,
This is my first post, I

 

[Rebel]

First off, NO a muzzleloader can not be used to hunt, at least not big game, at 200 meters. 100-125 yds max, and that is stretching it for most people. A flintlock takes a while to get used to for most people. You can expect a good gun, with a good lock and barrel to shoot 3/4"-1" groups at 50 yds., and 2"-3" groups at 100 yds. Even if you can hit regularly at 200 meters with a .50 cal. the round ball would be real low on velocity and energy at that range, and should not be used on anything other than maybe rockchucks and coyotes. :imo:

 

[KRUNK]

Thanks Rebel, I've seen so many diffrent claims while trying to reasearch online that I am left some what confused. How much of a diffrence does the built type make? ball or conical?

 

If you want to shoot big game at 200 yards or more try a scoped inline. There is a lot of bullet drop but once you know where the bullet will hit at the longer ranges you can make the shot. I have shot a few deer at over 200 yards. Mildot scope, range finder, 250g SST bullets, and 777 powder.

 

[KRUNK]

I appreciate the suggestions; 200-meter reliability is not absolutely necessary I mention this particular range because I am trying to determine a flintlocks limitations. Hell, I have never shot at a deer at two hundred meters in my life; I hunt in a shotgun only area :: .

I want the experience of a flintlock but am willing to compromise with bullet type. For target shooting are round balls more or less accurate then conicals?

 

[HardBall]

I want the experience of a flintlock but am willing to compromise with bullet type. For target shooting are round balls more or less accurate then conicals?

Of the flintlocks I've seen, most have a 1/48" rate of twist or slower, meaning they're probably going to be, a bit - to a lot, more accurate with a round ball.

 

[Rebel]

I would go with a round ball, especially if the biggest thing you plan to hunt is deer. They are normally more accurate, and they cost a lot less, so you can practice more. Practice is the key to good shot placement, and shot placement is the main thing when hunting.

 

[Stumpkiller]

The ignition system is not the limiting parameter. A flintlock is no more or less accurate than any other muzzleloader - including in-lines.

You can take a fast-twist Jaeger, bolt on a scope, over-stuff it with powder and add a long conical and make a 250 yard killer out of it . . . or you can learn to be a hunter instead of a shooter and use a moderate charge under a round ball and stick with open iron sights. ::

The round ball is not a very efficient projectile. The sectional density of 1.0 just doesn't carry. But then, primative weapons are supposed to be a challenge.

 

[Ohio Joe]

I would not feel comfortable taking a 200 meter deer or antelope shot when hunting even if it was all that I had available to me. I shoot only patched roundball and set my limit at 100 yards, though I have taken deer at 137 yards with patched roundball.

I shoot fixed open sight muzzleloaders only and for target shooting, the patched roundball can do it all in my opinion. You just need to learn your rifle's likes and dislikes of various loads. Having a good knowledge of windage and elevation is a must. Though you already know that.

Our muzzleloading group out here in Nebraska shoots patched roundballs a long ways out at gongs, and we hit those 24 inch diameter gongs at 300 yards with consistency, and smaller gongs at closer ranges.

We also hold 60 yard chunk gun shoots. Cross Sticks Shoots at 50, and 100 yards. Offhand we shoot 25, 50, 75, and 100 yards. It's the Gong Shoots and their range however that we get our real test at ranges of, 150, 200, 250, and 300 yards... (The best part is how the report of a struck gong is delayed back to your hearing. We get the biggest kick out of that!) Anyway....

What it all comes down to is that your muzzleloader is only as effective as you make it, but always remember to abide by your own limitations when hunting... :imo:

There were some very long shots made during the American Revolution that ended many a Redcoats careers and they were using the good ol' patched roundball! :results:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Just for the sake of argument, we can assume a .50 caliber rifle with a barrel of 40", or a bit longer, can be gotten up to the 2000 feet-per-second. This seems to be worked-far level for many shooters. Even if you do get that out of your rifle, by 200 yards a round ball's speed is down below 800 f.p.s. with a remaining energy about that of a .38 Special revolver round...just for perspective. This doesn't even consider the fact that the mid-range trajectory of the ball would be around 41 inches! You'd be dealing with a real rainbow for a trajectory!

 

The accurracy is more upon the shooter and the load you work up for the piece. All guns shoot a little different with the exact same load for another gun of the same cal., make, and model. :imo:
What one needs to keep in mind, is the energy that a round ball will have at a certain distance (for clean killing power). :redthumb:
:agree: with what has been said that 100 yds. is about the limit, and still have the required energy when it reaches this distance. :m2c:


Woody

 

[KyFlintlock]

For me it is the old 80/20 rule. I try to cover the bases with what might happen 80% of the time.. If you stop and think back on the deer that you have shot, then lump 80% of them together, what do you have? For me it is under 75 yards. "75yards + flinter = filled tag".

Most folks start out wanting to kill everything, I did too. I had to kill my limit, had to make the shot with the '06 whatever the distance (took several over 300yards). Since I started to carry the flinter afield, things have changed for me. I still want to kill those deer , but no longer freak when I see a buck at 150 yards, that is just part of the hunt. ...and when one piles up after a 40-50yard shot, the hunt is TRULY complete!

Good luck whatever you decide, but I would bet you'll LOVE the flinter! :RO:

Wess

 

[Rocky Johnson]

KRUNK Good luck with your project. Roundball is the T/C guy on this forum and always happy to help with T/C flintlock imfo.You will love shooting the flintlock but it takes some getting use to. You will find a lot of help on this board. :winking: Rocky

 

[Rat]

Most accuracy from a side-lock, not so tough: Quality barrel, with thought and research put into type and rate of twist. Then it's a matter of trial and error with different size balls, different sizes of patches, and different lubes.

I'd say the accuracy you can expect is more than enough to go to your average rifle range, and out shoot 90% of the modern rifles on the range, that are being fired by "average" shooters.

The reason the Bat-Guns (inlines) are shooting out to 200 yards is mainly because of the mega-powder charges...the 200 yard guns are using 150 or more grains of powder to get the velocity up and trajectory down. That's also the reason for the sabots, as a lighter, saboted slug will have much more velocity over a bore diameter slug...as I'm sure you know. So combine mega powder charges with a saboted pistol slug and what do you get? A .444 Marlin that's what! (ballistically) Why scoped rifles that are ballistically identicle to modern rifles get to use the muzzle loading seasons is beyond me.

For me, the REASON for shooting a flintlock rifle is for FUN and ENJOYMENT. Most of the fun and enjoyment is working within the limitation of 100-125 yards. Out to 100 yards, the round ball will fly flatter, hit harder and expand some. A slug really is kind of out of place in a flinter. I enjoy shooting minnies out of my 1861 Springfield, but I can't imagine ever poking one down the barrel of my Jaeger!

For some people, the REASON for shooting black powder is just an eaiser way to get a deer or elk, so they think. Hence the rush or interest in a "muzzle loader" that will shoot to 200 yards. There's really no fun and enjoyment, or appreciation of the type of rifle used, other than is it the newest, fastest, most whizz-bang high tech thing and will it make it more EASY to kill the game...and make up for lack of hunting skill.

I am very much into shooting all types of military firearms, especially at 500 and 1200 yards. I love doing that. I have no interest in shooting game over 100 yards, as when it comes to hunting, I love the hunting more than the shooting, so I choose a flintlock which makes hunting more of a hunt....!!! Is this making ANY sense??

I guess what I'm trying to say is to separate hunting with a flintlock from shooting. Although, as others have mentioned you can get very fine accuracy from a round-ball flinter, you don't need MOA accuracy, because you won't be shooting out to ranges where your shots will disperse enough to cause a bad shot or miss...a big consideration when shooting out to 500 meters but not a factor to take a deer at 100 yards.

Good luck with your flinter...with the right attitude you will certainly become an addict like the rest of us, and ENJOY shooting and hunting more. All things considered, there's no advantage for any projectile other than a round ball. Traditionalist or not, if you are going to feed a flintlock with saboted slugs...might as well just use a modern rifle in the first place. For hunting out to 125 the round ball will leave NOTHING to be desired. Go to a bigger caliber before going to a slug. If you have doubts about effectiveness of a .50" roundball, get a .54. .54 balls still "seems" small or ineffective, (yeah right!) go to a .58", and so on and so on.

Sorry for all the drivel...must be the coffee.

:yakyak:

Rat

 

Rat,.... I gotta say,.. you explained thet very nicely!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: ::

YMHS
rollingb

 

[Rebel]

"Must be the coffee. Hey Rat, you need some decaf. :crackup: :crackup:

 

[BLAHMAN]

Rat, I agree 100%, however, there is nothing (and I mean nothing) that gives a thrill like crafting and making your own firearm, shooting it and harvesting game with it. I don't think you can get that rush from a stor bought product. :imo:

 

[KRUNK]

Rat,
I appreciate your input and I completely agree with you about enjoying the hunt. :redthumb:

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Just to add one small bit of technical info...

When you ask about accuracy, most of the info provided in this thread has been pretty darned conservative and is a testament to the folks who write it. Yup, this is one of those rare places where open bragging isn't so common.

But if we really want to answer the question about how accurate a sidelock rifle can be, all we need to do is look at some of the black powder world record holders. All the ones I've seen have been shot with sidelock guns (there might be some in-line classes, but I just haven't paid attention to them). The group sizes and scores being shot with sidelocks in competition would make most centrefire rifle shooters sit back and wonder why their fancy scoped rifles don't shoot as well.

By way of comparison, I'll mention that my sidelock .50cal has produced 50 yard groups which have impressed the heck out of me - best is a three shot group under 0.6" centre-to-centre shooting patched round ball. This isn't a fancy custom rifle but rather is a Traditions Hawken rifle, thought by many to be on the lower end of the quality spectrum. When I first started out I had no idea a muzzleloader would shoot that well. This isn't bragging about me or my rifle, this is just to say the technology is very capable of producing excellent accuracy. I don't shoot a flintlock (yet) but a reasonable examination of their technology (ie how the barrel's made) should yield the conclusion that a flintlock's likely to be able to produce similar accuracy.

Hope you enjoy the sport and the learning curve that comes with it!

 

[hole_in_hand]

It is not so much the gun (Flintlock or Caplock). But the Man that is shooting the weapon. :thumbsup: