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Percussion M.1803

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Wes/Tex

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Was looking for info on the Mississippi rifle for another post when I found this. Lodgewood is noted for converting standard commercial civilian and military type muzzle loaders into 'looks like an original'. They reshape, defarb and refinish and even stamp period markings on just about anything you can find or afford to snazzy up. A converted M.1803 southern militia piece with bayonet had me counting the change I found in the couch! :shocked2:
http://www.lodgewood.com/Confderate-Altered-M1803-Harpers-Ferry-Rifle_c_275.html
 
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Seems to have been an option used on a number at the time...looks 'way cool' as we used to say once upon a time! :wink: :haha:
 
I admire the work done to convert the rifle and especially adding the bayonet stud and converting the barrel/under rib/front rammer pipe for it.

Having noted that, I really wonder if one would want to use a brazed hammer like that in the period, because it probably would not have been silver braze. There is a LOT of braze in the joint at the rear of the cock/hammer and that means the thicker the braze, the weaker the joint, even with the remains of the top jaw screw holding the top of the percussion hammer in place.

In the period, I would think that welding the top part onto the cock/hammer would have been the preferred way to have done the conversion.

Still, I appreciate viewing the conversion and it gives me some ideas on what to do with a very old Navy Arms Harpers Ferry Rifle that I have.

Gus
 
I can't answer that for sure since I have never examined a southern rifle so converted. This gun is made using modern methods so I reasonable think it'd be safe. I don't know of any failures of this type of construction done during the 'Great Unpleasantness' but that's a WAG at best!
 
Eterry said:
Wes, any idea what southern state or Co. were issued these 1803s? My best friend traced his lineage back to a particular state and Co.

As he would say... that's like socks on a rooster.
Hadn't heard 'socks on a rooster' for a long time! :haha:
I'm sorry but I don't know of specific militia units so equipped. My guess would be Virginia since they were made at the Harpers Ferry Arsenal and many unissued pieces were stored there. I did find a note from Dec. 1860 from the Virginia governor stating over 3,200 flintlock rifles hadn been issued from there to militia units in that state. I'm not aware where or by whom the original was converted to this configuration.
You might contact Lodgewood who made the conversion to see if they have further info on it's source. Their comment that Virginia send obsolete guns to small state owned arsenals doesn't really tell us much.
 
That is extremely cool.

I've a Pedersoli made Harper's Ferry percussion conversion .54 horseman's pistol that is a fine shooter, and would make a most excellent pair with that M1803 rifle.

Such converted guns could be found in Confederate militia armory at the start of the war.
 
The Virginia militia was issued arms by the Commonwealth of Virginia, not by Harpers Ferry. Now, some of the Federal arms given to the Commonwealth under the Militia Act of 1808 may have been made by Harpers Ferry, especially the long obsolete M1803 Rifle, but not that many. The Federal Government reserved arms from both Harpers Ferry and Springfield for Federal troops (the U.S. Army) and state arms were taken from weapons made by contractors. Of course, the M1803 Rifle was long obsolete by the 1840s, so the 1803 could have been given out to some of the states if they were willing to accept used arms.

All of the above being said, Bill Edwards in his landmark book - Civil War Guns - did state that one company of the 33rd Virginia Infantry Regiment of the Stonewall Brigade did begin it's Civil War service armed with M1803 flint rifles.

Where did the guy who did the work for Lodgewood get his inspiration for this work? The drum and nipple is fine but I do have to say that I seriously doubt that a conversion like the one illustrated above was done by anyone in the Confederate service, the work done to the hammer is too weak to be reliable, especially when standard civilian percussion hammers of the proper throw were stronger and much more widely available, therefore less expensive.

To see information on weapons issued to the Virginia Militia by June 17, 1861 read "MESSAGE FROM THE EXECUTIVE OF THE COMMONWEALTH, WITH ACCOMPANYING DOCUMENTS, SHOWING THE MILITARY AND NAVAL PREPARATIONS FOR THE DEFENSE OF THE STATE OF VIRGINIA" at:
http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/message/message.html
 
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You are right...I misspoke. The guns were issued by Virginia but from the armory stores. 'Flintlock rifles' could have been unconverted M.1803 or M.1817 rifles, which isn't specified. As for the illustrated rifle, they copied an original but didn't specify who may have done the work. I agree there were better options but they copied the original gun since several others are known that were converted in the same fashion.

At the time the southern states issued or had made anything that would shoot. Even shotguns were converted in an attempt to have usable firearms for the various militia regiments. Here in Bastrop there still stands a small gun shop armory that converted guns and was suppose to make new ones. They were described as being like Enfields but no known example has survived. So much info and examples seem not to have survived or wee destroyed or lost through the years.
 
I extremely doubt the cock/hammer conversion to percussion was done at a Southron Arsenal, except possibly as an ultra emergency repair. Southron Arsenals would have welded the new percussion hammer onto the old flint cock or replaced the flint cock with a percussion hammer.

I have quite a few books on Civil War era fireams and some especially on Southern made or modified arms. I have also seen a number of originals. I would bet the percussion conversion was done by a contractor or even a local blacksmith.

BTW, Wes/Tex,

There was a Southern Arsenal that made a fair number of Enfield Copies in Tyler Texas after the machinery was transported there from the Little Rock Arsenal. About a decade after I learned that and much to my surprise, I learned my Father had gone through Army Boot Camp in Tyler, Texas near the end of WWII. Of course I asked Dad if there was any evidence of the Confederate Ordnance Works at Tyler left over when he was there, but he said there was nothing left and nothing that even marked it had been there.

I would not be surprised if all evidence of that WWII Army Camp has also disappeared by now.

Gus
 
Your ?Dad probably was at Camp Fannin outside Tyler. It was closed but some of the original buildings still stand and have passed through several hands over the decades. Currently it is part of the Tyler campus of University of Texas Health Center. There is a memorial group on site for the army base. I don't believe the armory of the 1860's was located at the same place as the military camp 80 years later.

I'm familiar with the Tyler Rifle as it's now called, and it proves an interesting confusion. They contracted with the Military Board of the State of Texas for Mississippi rifles but all known production is patterned after Enfield of Austrian rifles, which are similar. Locks are marked "Austrian Rifle" for that version and the 29 entire locks found in 1931 have mixed markings but identical lock plates. The bunch of differently marked but identical size locks has led to speculation that there was an outside contractor making them, but assembly and finishing was done in Tyler...no proof either way has come forth to my knowledge! Gotta love those guys! :wink:
 
Yes, it was Camp Fannin where Dad took his Army Boot Camp training. I'll be sure to tell him about the information you provided on what happened to the Camp since then. Thank you. I'm sure he will enjoy it.

Sorry if I was confusing, but I did not think the Ordnance Works was on the same site as Camp Fannin. It was just that I wondered if there was anything left back then when he went into town on a pass.

Gus
 
P.S. I first learned of the Tyler Texas CSA Ordnance works in the early 1980's when I purchased my copy of: "Tyler, Texas, C.S.A.: The Story of the Confederate States Ordnance Works at Tyler, Texas, 1861 - 1865." by Albaugh, William A., III

Haven't looked at that book in 30 years, so I pulled it off the shelf and will go over it again.

Gus
 
Wes/Tex said:
The guns were issued by Virginia but from the armory stores. 'Flintlock rifles' could have been unconverted M.1803 or M.1817 rifles, which isn't specified.

Yes, in Virginia, from the armory stores in Richmond at the former Virginia Manufactory of Arms (soon to be the Richmond Armory when taken over by the Confederate government) or from the Lexington Armory on the grounds of the Virginia Military Institute. Other states had their own militia stores from which they issued arms in their possession.
 
This thread is rather old.

But I have shown the link to the converted 1803 to my brother - a CW reenactor - and he liked the gun very much.
Having an old 1803 copy from Navy Arms in my shop, I thought I make him a conversion for his birthday...


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