Pedersoli Kentucky 50 cal short start's tough!

[Tahquamenon]

Hey Folks,

I've got a Pedersoli Kentucky 50 cal and it shoots excellent, but does it ever start-load hard!

I've cleaned the barrel completely and am cleaning prior to loading which makes no difference.

Actually, the loading is not what so difficult. It's the getting the PRB started that is the royal PITA.

I'm shooting Sierra .490 RB and have tried .018, .015 and .010 patches. The .010 do load easier, but not much.
I've also tried Hornady .490 RB with the same patches and idential tough starting situations.

Any idea as to how to short start this beast?
Is there a holder or cradle that the pistol can set in so I can focus on short starting?

Thanks Much!

Tahquamenon

 

I had this problem with my .54 DP Kentucky, when I tried to load it with .018 patches. Went down to .010 patches and I can thumb-start them, so that's what I shoot.

Maybe you need some like .488 roundballs or something? LOL

 

[jim gray]

Is coning it an option. I don't know that this is routinely done on pistols, but can't think why it wouldn't work.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

I just got one from a guy in .45 cal to see if I can get it to shoot a good group for him... I'm hoping he will decide to sell it... but I'm not gonna yank him around either.

"Always treat people right and it'll return someday to you!"

I did notice that the barrel (quick look in the bore only) has about 10 or 12 shallow grooves instead of the 6 or 8 deeper type grooves.

What does the .50 have for rifling? I need to see if I can measure this bore--both the lands and grooves measurements. I'll let you know if it's on the lower end of tolerance. Maybe that's why Pedersoli's seem to shoot better is that they keep the barrels uniform and on the low end of tolerance? Who knows...?

Get a pack of those "hardball" rounds that Hornady makes and use the ball out of one as they are .485" if I remember correctly. They are harder alloy though, but this ought to give you another physical way to check if the bore is under spec. or too small.

I'd have to come up with a little chunk o' change if I wanted this one. Do they even make the Kentucky in .45 anymore? This one looks like new, but there is some indication that it was fired. It has this little DP medallion on a string on the trigger guard too. My wife almost clobbered me when I showed it to her, cause she thought I spent the month's grocery money and utilities payments on it!!! Actually she just said that's a nice one. Understatement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me know what you find out with that .50 cal. OK?

I've got .430, .440, and .445 diameter balls and a variety of patch thicknesses in .010, .012, .015, .018, .020... somewhere in that combination there should be a winner, don't ya think so?

Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly

 

The book that came with my TC Renegade kit , from back in the '80's showed how to make a loading stand for their Patriot pistol . I'll post a pic of it tomorrow if I can figure out how to do it . It's pretty simple to build , although I haven't built one yet , I just put the butt of my pistol on the bench and let it push against my belly . A loading stand would work much better though . I'm going to make one for myself , but first I need a round toit . Once I get a round toit , I will build my loading stand ::. If you make one , make it so you can clamp it to a bench .

 

Tahq , check your PM . :thumbsup:

 

[Rat]

Maybe the muzzle needs a little more crown to it, or a more gradual crown?

That's all I can think of!

Rat

 

[Zonie]

If the muzzle is rough, it will make starting the patched ball a real task. IMO, it should be shiny-smooth.

If it isn't, and if it were mine, I would use some 600 weight wet/dry sandpaper on it.
To do this, tear off a small piece and lay it flat on the muzzle. Using your little finger, push down on the center of the paper while rotating the barrel back and forth.
As the paper deforms down into the bore, it will polish the whole area, both bore and rifling grooves.

When finished, re-touch the area using BC Instant Blueing, or just leave it bright.

One of the hazzards of placing the guns stock against a table to support it while loading, is some of these guns have rather brittle stock wood, and the woods grain is often running in a direction where it can break from too much pounding or shoving on the muzzle of the barrel so use the thinnest patch you can find.
If accuracy suffers from the thin patch, you will either have to live with it, or go with the next patch thickness.

The way I shoot pistols, I wouldn't know if the patch was making a difference or not. ::

 

I agree , thin patches are the way to go . If .010 is too thick , try using the pockets from an old pair of cotton pants . I get mine from my old Wal Mart kacki shorts . They are slightly less than .010 . I light a small piece of the material to make sure it's 100% cotton with no synthetics , cotton will burn , synthetics melt . :m2c:

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

Hey Folks,

I've got a Pedersoli Kentucky 50 cal and it shoots excellent, but does it ever start-load hard!

Hey there friend!

I measured the bore on my buddy's Pedersoli Kentucky .45 caliber and it's about .456, so it is not on the low side and I dont' think it is worn either. (No, I haven't got out to shoot it yet, had to work night shift and slept all day today. Hope to soon!)

Were you able to take any measurements on that .50 cal barrel. I see on the Pedersoli website that the .45 has 12 lands & grooves and is a 1:18" twist. That's a pretty fast twist, so it ought to shoot well--even with very low charge weights.

I have heard that some people shoot 20gr of FFFg and .445 ball with 0.15 patch for target shooting. I would expect the .50 cal version to be charged in a similar manner (except for the ball diameter of course).

Were you able to get any .485" diameter balls? They are harder alloy though, so that might not be a reasonable thing to try...

Let us know what you find out.

Peace and Peaches, (don't ask--it's a very bizarre family salutation and an inside joke)
WV_Hillbilly

 

[hcook]

I agree , thin patches are the way to go . If .010 is too thick , try using the pockets from an old pair of cotton pants . I get mine from my old Wal Mart kacki shorts . They are slightly less than .010 . I light a small piece of the material to make sure it's 100% cotton with no synthetics , cotton will burn , synthetics melt . :m2c:

I tried that but I kept losing my car keys .

Hank

 

:crackup: :thumbsup:

 

[Tahquamenon]

Thanks folks for all the replies.

The muzzle appears to be polished very well, but I'm considering doing a better crown to smooth and polish things out a bit further.

I'd hate to cone the muzzle for fear of lousing up a superbly shooting pistol, but if all else fails then I'll likely consider that.

The bore is 12 groove 1:18" rifling. I did not mic the bore.

Once started, with a .490 ball the bore and a BB lubed patch:
.010" patch = Snug and shoots good.
.015" patch (which is what the manual specifies) = Tight and shoots excellent.
.018" Ticking patch = Very tight and only on a cleaned bore every shot, but shoots excellent.

 

Tahquamenon , the pic is in the mail , at least it should be . Let me know if you didn't get it and I will try again . :thumbsup:

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

TQM,

Unless you're seeing some obvious distortion or roughness on that crown, I'd really leave it alone.

Even though you've not yet come upon the cause for the loading difficulty, it is always better to not be too hasty when it comes to cutting anything, or anywhere. It's really hard to put that metal back, ya know...

Sounds like the gun is performing quite well in terms of accuracy... "don't fix what ain't broke" as the saying goes...

Let me ask this: Is the problem ONLY in getting the ball started past the muzzle OR is it in completing the task of ramming it down onto the charge?

ALSO: If the difficulty is in ramming ball on through bore... Do you have access to one of those instruments that shows how much force is being used to ram the rod down?

I'm going to copy all of this thread down to a file and "study on it a spell"... cause something ain't adding up.

If you find the answer before someone else does, let me know so I don't burn out too many brain cells trying to come up with something. (I can't afford to lose too many more brain cells either!)

Take care! Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly

 

[Tahquamenon]

Let me ask this: Is the problem ONLY in getting the ball started past the muzzle OR is it in completing the task of ramming it down onto the charge?
Only getting the ball started. Once started things are fine. But getting past the muzzle is a huge chore.

ALSO: If the difficulty is in ramming ball on through bore... Do you have access to one of those instruments that shows how much force is being used to ram the rod down?
Nope, I've no way to measure the force required to load, but once started it's not too bad.

 

[Tahquamenon]

HI Renegade,

I got the photo of the loading stand. Thanks much!
Looks like I could fab one without too much heartburn.

Does that put an undue force on the end of the handgrip?

I'd sure hate to crack a stock.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

The loading stand will make things somewhat easier, but you need to clamp it down to a table or bench for it to really be effective... otherwise, you will be trying to keep it from "skating" on you. You could end up trading one problem for another.

That said, if you make a loading stand, the best thing is that you have the actual gun that you are going to be loading in that stand. What I'm saying; is that you can make the cradle fit very snug, and line all the contact points with the gun with felt (glued on the wood) or similar non-scratching material. I've built a few of these for Traditions Trappers and they work great! (Building multiple stands for the same model gun tends to show up the design flaws more readily.)

Remember though to shore up that back side, as you will be trying to torque over the pistol to that higher back side of the stand... and I have seen them break before. Wasn't even my stand or gun and I probably shed a tear or two for it.
Also make sure at the front of the stand where the heel of the pistol's butt rests that it can't move left/right/forward/backward at all (once it's seated).

The loading stand should fit like a glove for the particular gun it's made for. So unless you want to deal with even more troubles, try to keep those tolerances extremely tight.

Sorry if this reply sounds bossy or arrogant, but I would hate to see a Pedersoli Kentucky or ANY nice gun get damaged needlessly. Just tell me to shut up if the advice I'm giving doesn't sound worthwhile, I won't be offended.

I don't have any stands on hand right now, or I'd send a pic. of one to you. I think you've got the general concept though.

Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly

 

[Tahquamenon]

Thanks for all the info.

This is my first ML single shot pistol and although I really enjoy shooting it, I need to cobble a better method of stort starting at the muzzle.

I may try the stand first before I fool with the crown.

 

HI Renegade,

I got the photo of the loading stand. Thanks much!
Looks like I could fab one without too much heartburn.

Does that put an undue force on the end of the handgrip?

I'd sure hate to crack a stock.

Your quite welcome , I'm happy I could help . As far as loading goes , I would follow Zonies advice and use thin patches , although I really don't think you have worry about breaking your handgrip , as long as you're not beating the ball into the muzzle . The only way I know to load a pistol , is to stand it on its butt (if someone knows a better way , please let me know , so I can try it too). You may also want to put a rubber pad (1/4 inch thick , or so)on your loading stand , where the butt sits to cushion it some , and protect it . Your pistol might also become easier to load after you shoot it some more . If your loading problem is severe , I would take it to a gunsmith and explain the problem to him , and see if he can fix it . If you can start the ball using a .010 patch without having to beat it in , then stick with .010 patches . If not , find thiner patching and try it , before you see a gunsmith . BTW , Track of the Wolf has some excellent :imo: , caliber specific , pistol loading rods , for less than $10 . I have one for my .45 CVA Kentucky , and one for my .50 Pedersoli Oueen Anne . Good luck with your pistol shooting , and let us know how it turns out ! :thumbsup: