Patch's won't come clean

[pinemarten]

I am wondering if someone might have an idea what is going on with my flintlock cleaning ...
I use bear grease for patch lube as i will be hunting in cold Upper Peninsula muzzleloading season. I clean between my practice shots with patch and 90 percent alcohol. Go to clean my barrel and do the following. Plug vent with toothpick. Fill with hot tap water and dish soap. Let set 10min. Pour out and repeat twice... Rinse with clear water. Dry patches times maybe 10 or so... Run soaking wd-40 patches down twice...set 20 min while clean lock. then run alcohol patch.. then repeat, and repeat, and repeat... BUT they never come out white; always have a greenish dark color matching the inside of the bore and rifling. Its not black or real dark but always something comes out on the patch. I've done probably 20 plus with alcohol or other cleaners and always the same. Is this normal? Due to bear grease? I've also used other lubes such as the Mink (I think it was..) but same story
I don't know if I'm supposed to see white patches or if I'm leaving something to hurt my gun..

Thanks for any tips!!

 

[bubba.50]

Don’t know if this applies to your situation or not but, I read somewhere that due to a reaction between the steel barrel and a brass jag the patches will never come out pure white.

Luck figgerin’ it out & have a good’en, bubba.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I just use boiling water. It gets the gun so hot it drys itself. I only need a dry patch to grab any puddles in the bore. It then drys itself.
Why am I emphasizing this?
Because our concerns regarding harm.

As long as sufficient volume of water has been used the harmful salts have been dissolved and flushed away.
Forget the alcohol and wd.
Treat the warm steel to a natural oil or grease other than mineral based.

There is often just carbon left behind and a little carbon goes a long way! It though won't harm anything.

 

[Le Loup]

I am wondering if someone might have an idea what is going on with my flintlock cleaning ...
I use bear grease for patch lube as i will be hunting in cold Upper Peninsula muzzleloading season. I clean between my practice shots with patch and 90 percent alcohol. Go to clean my barrel and do the following. Plug vent with toothpick. Fill with hot tap water and dish soap. Let set 10min. Pour out and repeat twice... Rinse with clear water. Dry patches times maybe 10 or so... Run soaking wd-40 patches down twice...set 20 min while clean lock. then run alcohol patch.. then repeat, and repeat, and repeat... BUT they never come out white; always have a greenish dark color matching the inside of the bore and rifling. Its not black or real dark but always something comes out on the patch. I've done probably 20 plus with alcohol or other cleaners and always the same. Is this normal? Due to bear grease? I've also used other lubes such as the Mink (I think it was..) but same story
I don't know if I'm supposed to see white patches or if I'm leaving something to hurt my gun..

Thanks for any tips!!

Mate I recommend that you do not use soap, & use boiling water for cleaning. When you oil the bore, some of this oil actually gets impregnated into the metal of the barrel, if you use soap, it will remove this oil. If you do not use boiling water, then you could be getting rust in the barrel.
Try that process & see how it goes.
Keith.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I get instant flash rust with hot water, room temperature water works just as well.

On modern steels there is no "seasoning" of oils in a barrel, perhaps there was when the more porous wrought iron was the normal barrel material. Some myths go on forever and are passed down generation to generation.

I have never pulled a clean white patch out of my barrels after my initial cleanup no matter what cleaning method I use. I do get clean patches after I run an oily patch down the bore after cleaning.

 

[Juice Jaws]

I basically do what Bitsmoothy does, but I have gone from boiling water to just very hot tap water, does the same thing and I don't burn my hand. My guns are clean and rust free, but my last patches never come out pure white, always something on them.

 

[BrownBear]

I get instant flash rust with hot water, room temperature water works just as well.

On modern steels there is no "seasoning" of oils in a barrel, perhaps there was when the more porous wrought iron was the normal barrel material. Some myths go on forever and are passed down generation to generation.

I have never pulled a clean white patch out of my barrels after my initial cleanup no matter what cleaning method I use. I do get clean patches after I run an oily patch down the bore after cleaning.

Zackly my experience, so you saved me the trouble of writing it all down.

Ditch the hot water and switch to room temp, even cool from the tap, to avoid flash rusting.

Try a little speriment: Smear some of your lube on the kitchen counter, then try to clean it up with alcohol. Then try it again with mild soap. You decide how to interpret the results.

 

[pinemarten]

Thanks everyone for the good recommendations!
I wondered if the greenish brown color on my 20th patch wipe was suggesting I have some build up in the barrel. I have been having very difficult time loading and can’t do a second shot without putting my weight into it... tried a third shot and had to pull the ball as I couldn’t move it more than 10”. If I clean between shots with alcohol I can get a ball in with thin patch (.490 ball) but thin patch is cut. Thicker ticking is entact but need a hammer to load!!

Daniel

 

[Britsmoothy]

Why does everyone fear glad rusting?
It really is not an issue.
We all will most likely be gone before our barrels are useless!

 

[Rat]

Thanks everyone for the good recommendations!
I wondered if the greenish brown color on my 20th patch wipe was suggesting I have some build up in the barrel. I have been having very difficult time loading and can’t do a second shot without putting my weight into it... tried a third shot and had to pull the ball as I couldn’t move it more than 10”. If I clean between shots with alcohol I can get a ball in with thin patch (.490 ball) but thin patch is cut. Thicker ticking is entact but need a hammer to load!!

Daniel

Smaller ball, thicker patch would help. I wipe between shots with "Blue Thunder". Something like that or Windex might work better than alcohol. ?? But for sure, I think your balls are too big. Shawnee.......just don't say a thing. !!!

 

[pinemarten]

Ha ha Lol!! Yes their too big...gotta get a custom breech clout fer sure!

Unfortunately, in my excitement of getting the .50 cal, I bought about 5 boxes of the .490
The gentleman who made the beautiful flintlock had provided a bunch of .495 balls and a stout ticking patch but I never could drive that down without a sledge!

Again, first one drives ok if I use the .490 but I’d better clean it or the second will threaten to break my loading rod

Daniel

 

[BrownBear]

I wondered if the greenish brown color on my 20th patch wipe was suggesting I have some build up in the barrel. I have been having very difficult time loading and can’t do a second shot without putting my weight into it... tried a third shot and had to pull the ball as I couldn’t move it more than 10”. If I clean between shots with alcohol I can get a ball in with thin patch (.490 ball) but thin patch is cut. Thicker ticking is entact but need a hammer to load!!

Sure sounds like buildup to me. I'm wondering if in fact you're the second owner and some ham-hander before you was trying to "season" the barrel. I LOVE the barrel seasoning crowd, cuzz I've sure picked up some dandy "shot out" barrels in their wake. For pennies on the dollar.

Try this: Hop down to the auto store (or slip out into your garage) and pick up a can of brake cleaner or even carburetor cleaner. Dowse a patch with it and scrub the bore. Repeat a few times with more soaked patches till they start coming up clean. Shine a light down your bore expecting to see nice shiny bright reflections from your "restored" bore.

If that all works, I bet your loading woes are over. Nothing like getting rid of all the cooked on glop from the bore to make loading easier and most likely improve accuracy.

 

[Danny Ross]

I have had the same issue over the years. "I think" the issue is there the is build up in the corners of the grooves in the rifling, that gets baked on with use, and the abrasiveness of the drying patches dragging over it is the cause of the coloration, because that is what it looks like on my patches. If I only use single thickness swabbing patches I don't get the coloration you discribe. When I use "double thickness" drying swabbing patches, forcing it down into the grooves, Is when I get greenish or brownish residue on my drying swabs, even after using alcohol. It the coloration looks like it is coming out of the corners of the grooves somewhere along the length of the barrel on the patches. I have gone back and even recleaned the barrell thinking I didn't get it cleaned and still got the residue coloration on my double thickness swabs. I never get a completely white patch when drying. Now the interesting thing, is when I am done dry swabbing, put Barricade on my patches and swab the barrel even double thick, the coloration seems to stop. But they are wet and not as abrasive as dry ones. So I appreciate your dilemma. DANNY

 

[Dr5x]

I avoided water in my barrels as much as possible. Using white patches dampened, not "WET" with Moose Milk till I pull snow white patches, then coating the bore with water displacement oil till next time at the range where I would burn off the oil with a pre fouling balls charge of 30 -40 grains of powder before loading for serious shooting.
It may be my own myth, but both my barrels were seasoned and the water displacement oil saturates the steel and I never had rust or black schmaltz show up days later.
The last time I cleaned them was with the above described procedures at the range and then stored them in humid St Louis for 20 some years and still puled no rust or schmaltz after all that time.



Dutch Schoultz

I get instant flash rust with hot water, room temperature water works just as well.

On modern steels there is no "seasoning" of oils in a barrel, perhaps there was when the more porous wrought iron was the normal barrel material. Some myths go on forever and are passed down generation to generation.

I have never pulled a clean white patch out of my barrels after my initial cleanup no matter what cleaning method I use. I do get clean patches after I run an oily patch down the bore after cleaning.

 

[Dr5x]

The black schmaltz or orange rust is not hidden away in the wee nooks and crannies of the bore. It is forced into the molecular structure of the steel itself and then sealed in there with some oil.

I suggest keeping water out of the barrel as much as possible and you won't have that surprise rust sowing up, or the black crud either.

Dutch Schoultz

I am wondering if someone might have an idea what is going on with my flintlock cleaning ...
I use bear grease for patch lube as i will be hunting in cold Upper Peninsula muzzleloading season. I clean between my practice shots with patch and 90 percent alcohol. Go to clean my barrel and do the following. Plug vent with toothpick. Fill with hot tap water and dish soap. Let set 10min. Pour out and repeat twice... Rinse with clear water. Dry patches times maybe 10 or so... Run soaking wd-40 patches down twice...set 20 min while clean lock. then run alcohol patch.. then repeat, and repeat, and repeat... BUT they never come out white; always have a greenish dark color matching the inside of the bore and rifling. Its not black or real dark but always something comes out on the patch. I've done probably 20 plus with alcohol or other cleaners and always the same. Is this normal? Due to bear grease? I've also used other lubes such as the Mink (I think it was..) but same story
I don't know if I'm supposed to see white patches or if I'm leaving something to hurt my gun..

Thanks for any tips!!

 

[hanshi]

I clean with and recommend plain tap water, with a drop of Dawn, if you like and no HOT water. If the bore is thoroughly dry you can then oil it.

 

[Greenjoytj]

Remember heat accelerates a chemical reactions and cold slows it (but doesn’t stop it). Use tepid water just enough warmth so you finger bones aren’t buzzing with arthritis. I get orange rust dust forming in seconds if hot water is used on my GPR.

A little high proof 99% alcohol will absorb water molecules and lift more embedded fouling so don’t be surprised as the drying patches still show black fouling or rust colour.

Try some modern bore cleaners after the alcohol drying, they’re designed to remove carbon. I like “Mpro-7 Gun Cleaner” and the foaming cleaners too.

If you have a gun that just won’t come clean, I would have it bore scoped to actually see what the problem is way down in the furnace. Your gun maybe a candidate for many days of bore soaking and bushing to undo the good that a previous owner did to it.

Use Kroil oil in the bore for a few weeks, it will penetrate the microscopic fissures and tool marks to loosen carbon so it can be brushed out.
Kroil is a super thin penetrating oil, mix it with J-B Bore Shine to scour out burned on oil, carbon even lead may have gotten bonded into the rifling.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I just think the barrel needs lapping or shooting with JB paste on the patches.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Tap water straight out of the faucet works for me!

 

[pinemarten]

I took the barrel and used the brake cleaner with multiple soaking patches. The following dry patches looked pretty clean. I then did a patch soaked in wd40 and the patches coming out after that all looked brownish. Interesting! I got the patches coming clean and then put some Barricade back in. I am pretty sure this is a newish Getz .50 cal barrel that the builder used to make the gun. I don't recall if he had even shot it or not.
With the blue/white ticking he gave me which is thick and sturdy, a tight to start .490 in the cleaned barrel goes down ok and there is a intact and unscorched wad...using some flimsy ticking I got from walmart trying to get a looser easier to push ball gets blown up a bit with scorch and rips! I ordered some old 1940's ticking off the internet from an old pillow case today hoping to get that nice sturdy quality material. I think I'll just have to shoot that stuff and clean between shots dealing with the too-tight to load the second one with the hickory rod situation! Shoots real dead on with the tight patching too.