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Patching Cannon Balls
- Thread starter musketman
- Start date
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well every cutaway drawing i have ever seen of a loaded naval cannon had a large wad of patching material between powder and the ball, and another one rammed down onto the ball.
But ive never seen a patched canister/case/grape round.
But ive never seen a patched canister/case/grape round.
robinghewitt
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In the 17th century they allowed 1/4" windage, that is, the ball was 1/4" undersized to the barrel. Whitworth made balls with hexagonal flats for his rifled cannon. I think it depends on the period :thumbsup:
Having trained and been on the firing crew of the Castillio de San Marcos or the Old Fort of St. Augustine.
..the time period of 1740c. :shocking: we never thought or have literature of "patching" the cannon balls.:: We are firing the 6lb. cannons on the fort top gun deck. Now that is a thrill of re-enacting 300 year old period guns.
Now, we have also fired "Garfield the Cat", gloves and some unmentionalble out the tube :shake: :haha: :blah: and those did not require patching either. You should see my tapes on the "gay" firing we did one time. Lots of wrists bending on that one..not to mention the pink scarves. Hey...I am off topic....oooppppsssss... :results:
Anyway...patching...do not think so on any cannon.
Oh...Garfield set one of the palm trees on fire..guess that was better than the stupid sail boat that suddenly turned its sails our way.:what::winking:
Anyway again.....I am back on line:crackup: :crackup: :crackup::youcrazy:
..the time period of 1740c. :shocking: we never thought or have literature of "patching" the cannon balls.:: We are firing the 6lb. cannons on the fort top gun deck. Now that is a thrill of re-enacting 300 year old period guns. Now, we have also fired "Garfield the Cat", gloves and some unmentionalble out the tube :shake: :haha: :blah: and those did not require patching either. You should see my tapes on the "gay" firing we did one time.
Lots of wrists bending on that one..not to mention the pink scarves. Hey...I am off topic....oooppppsssss... :results:Anyway...patching...do not think so on any cannon.
Oh...Garfield set one of the palm trees on fire..guess that was better than the stupid sail boat that suddenly turned its sails our way.:what::winking:
Anyway again.....I am back on line:crackup: :crackup: :crackup::youcrazy:
Musketman! Where do you come up with this stuff? ::You are truly a bizarre individual! I guess that's why we get along so well! :: :thumbsup:I guess you could patch a cannonball with a cheap Wally-World wash cloth. According to Squire Robin's figure of 1/4" windage, a good thick cotton wash cloth would be just about right. And, it's pre-cut! Just think of how much patch lube it'd take though!!! :shocking: You truly are a BIG BORE enthusiast! I admire that! :: :thumbsup:
Musketman, another possibility. Dare I say it? :erphaps a bra cup? They come in a variety of sizes, and they are sorta pre-shaped to fit a round object! :: :crackup:I don't know if they make an all cotton one, but it might be worth "lookin'" into. :crackup: :thumbsup:
P.S. I seem to remember reading a post awhile ago about a double-barrelled cannon! This would fit right in with that! :: :crackup: :thumbsup:
erphaps a bra cup? They come in a variety of sizes, and they are sorta pre-shaped to fit a round object! :: :crackup:I don't know if they make an all cotton one, but it might be worth "lookin'" into. :crackup: :thumbsup:P.S. I seem to remember reading a post awhile ago about a double-barrelled cannon! This would fit right in with that! :: :crackup: :thumbsup:
Guest
In my little garrison gun it goes like this...
Powder,WAD, Ball---Prime---FIRE.....NO patch needed..
Would NOT want to shoot that Dbl. Bbl. MONSTER.. as I remember you were supposed to shoot 2 balls connected by a chain....what happens if ONLY 1 Bbl. goes off ????? I cant duck THAT quick...
Powder,WAD, Ball---Prime---FIRE.....NO patch needed..
Would NOT want to shoot that Dbl. Bbl. MONSTER.. as I remember you were supposed to shoot 2 balls connected by a chain....what happens if ONLY 1 Bbl. goes off ????? I cant duck THAT quick...
That's right, but the problem with the Athens' Double Barrel Cannon was that the charges were set off uneven during teating, so the chain spun wildly down range...
Now, imaging that with a load of grapeshot in each muzzle...
True, but there was only windage three ways on this set up, the cannon ball was resting on the bottom of the bore due to gravity, so you ended up with something like this... (as seen head on)
A patched would hold the cannon ball in the center of the bore much like a patch holds the roundball in your musket/rifle...
By the time of the AWI, at least, cannon balls and shells were strapped to a wooden base with tin straps. The whole thing loaded as a unit and saved the time it would take to load the ball and wadding separately. It also helped take up the slack (read: windage) in the bore.
Muzzleloading-era naval guns firing round shot used a hemp grommet (like an O-ring)in front of the shot to keep the shot from rolling out the muzzle when the ship down-rolled. Naval guns seldom if ever fired case shot because the fuze couldn't be cut short enough to make the shell explode at the close ranges experienced between ships. Grape shot was used often to destroy rigging and put holes in sails, but a stand of grape didn't need a grommet because of its cylindrical shape (it wasn't likely to slide toward the muzzle on the down-roll. I believe canister was almost exclusively a land artillery anti-personnel round (like the modern day Claymore or beehive). If anybody knows otherwise please get back to me.
I didn't know there was a distinction between "grape shot" and cannister. Cannister was use on ships just before sending boarders across. The object was usually to capture a ship by disabling the crew, not blow it full of holes and sink her.
I'd always heard shot, case, shell and cannister as being the four conventional loads (hot chain and bar-shot being unconventional).
A neat variation was the French "Perrier". Designed to use stone balls as an anti-ship weapon well into the iron cannon-ball era. Stone had the advantage of shattering upon impact, meaning a fuse was not required as in shell and case rounds.
I'd always heard shot, case, shell and cannister as being the four conventional loads (hot chain and bar-shot being unconventional).
A neat variation was the French "Perrier". Designed to use stone balls as an anti-ship weapon well into the iron cannon-ball era. Stone had the advantage of shattering upon impact, meaning a fuse was not required as in shell and case rounds.
canister last time i checked is a metal canister filled with a hundred or so musket balls in the napoleonic wars, short fuze to control the release of the load.
the "case" i refer to is mentioned in many 15-1700 era books, nothing more then a round tube of wood held together before loading with two bands of rope. upon firing it leaves the cannon and opens up throwing anything inside it around.
the "case" i refer to is mentioned in many 15-1700 era books, nothing more then a round tube of wood held together before loading with two bands of rope. upon firing it leaves the cannon and opens up throwing anything inside it around.
Hi Stumpkiller:
The distinction as I recall is in the number of balls in a round, a "stand of grape" usually had several layers of large shot placed around a central rod with a nut on top to hold the whole arrangement together for loading. Of course it broke apart on firing and everything went out together.
I had a Frankford Arsenal canister round made for the Army 12 pounder about 1875 (as I recall). It had numerous iron round balls loosely contained in a slotted metal cylinder with a sheet metal lid.
The spherical case rounds I have seen came assembled to a wooden sabot to keep the Bormann fuze toward the muzzle; the projectile itself was a thin walled shell with a bursting charge and some musket balls in some kind of matrix. Check out Warren Ripley's "Artillery and Ammunition of the Civil War" or the National Park Service publication about Civil War Explosive Ordnance authored by J. Bartleson.
You may be right about disabling the crew of an opposing ship, but I always thought that's what the Marine sharpshooters and grenadiers were stationed in the tops for, to fire down on the open deck of the other ship. (I was once placed on report for having rust on my pike.)
The distinction as I recall is in the number of balls in a round, a "stand of grape" usually had several layers of large shot placed around a central rod with a nut on top to hold the whole arrangement together for loading. Of course it broke apart on firing and everything went out together.
I had a Frankford Arsenal canister round made for the Army 12 pounder about 1875 (as I recall). It had numerous iron round balls loosely contained in a slotted metal cylinder with a sheet metal lid.
The spherical case rounds I have seen came assembled to a wooden sabot to keep the Bormann fuze toward the muzzle; the projectile itself was a thin walled shell with a bursting charge and some musket balls in some kind of matrix. Check out Warren Ripley's "Artillery and Ammunition of the Civil War" or the National Park Service publication about Civil War Explosive Ordnance authored by J. Bartleson.
You may be right about disabling the crew of an opposing ship, but I always thought that's what the Marine sharpshooters and grenadiers were stationed in the tops for, to fire down on the open deck of the other ship. (I was once placed on report for having rust on my pike.)
Absolutely right, "grape" was indeed larger balls sitting in levels around a solid wood center-pole and covered with canvas, or whatever, with twine wrapped around the various levels of balls. These ran from about .80" to over an inch.
"Canister" was indeed a bore sized tin can with a wooden base nailed in and a metal lid, often sweated or also nailed on. Cannister balls were usually musket ball size, or there abouts.
Naval cannons used solid balls for shots at enemy hulls and masts. Chain-shpt and bar-shot was fired at enemy sails. As stated, balls had to be held in with a wad or "ring" to prevent their rolling out.
Another good source of illustrations is Harold L. Peterson's "Round Shot and Rammers". This has good drawings of cannon and their projectiles from the early 17th to the mid 19th centuries.
"Canister" was indeed a bore sized tin can with a wooden base nailed in and a metal lid, often sweated or also nailed on. Cannister balls were usually musket ball size, or there abouts.
Naval cannons used solid balls for shots at enemy hulls and masts. Chain-shpt and bar-shot was fired at enemy sails. As stated, balls had to be held in with a wad or "ring" to prevent their rolling out.
Another good source of illustrations is Harold L. Peterson's "Round Shot and Rammers". This has good drawings of cannon and their projectiles from the early 17th to the mid 19th centuries.
Wes/Tex:
Your reference to Harold Peterson reminds me of a visit to him at the NPS Headquarters office in Springfield, VA. A Civil War field piece had been delivered that day and I helped remove the tube from the carriage. One of the slings broke and the tube hit the deck muzzle first: out rolled a fuzed case round with powder bag attached in nearly perfect condition! The powder was still good. The remnants of a friction primer were still in the vent.
Your reference to Harold Peterson reminds me of a visit to him at the NPS Headquarters office in Springfield, VA. A Civil War field piece had been delivered that day and I helped remove the tube from the carriage. One of the slings broke and the tube hit the deck muzzle first: out rolled a fuzed case round with powder bag attached in nearly perfect condition! The powder was still good. The remnants of a friction primer were still in the vent.
There was something I saw or read somewhere that showed a cannon being loaded with a handful of straw rammed down on the powder before the ball was loaded. I'm not sure if this was common practice, a field expedient, or somebodies fantasy, but it seems like it would be a fire hazard unless the straw was damp or completely consumed before leaving the muzzle.
robinghewitt
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When fighting a battle you are unlikely to worry much about setting fire to the battlefield :crackup:
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