Quantcast

Passthroughs By A Ball

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum:

hanshi

Cannon
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
10,221
Reaction score
1,453
Never used anything other than patched round ball for hunting going on 55 years.
 

Spikebuck

69 Cal.
MLF Supporter
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
3,825
Reaction score
604
Location
On the Mississippi in SE Minnesota
I’m certainly looking forward to personally seeing what a PRB can do.
Here's a picture of the hole a .530 RB will put in the lungs. Based on tables and charts in books the PRB shouldn't be able to do much at all, but they are highly effective killers for most of us based on where and/or how we hunt. Nothing unethical about them. One does have to work up the right load and understand the effective range and stay within it (well beyond 50 yards, that's for sure), but that's part of the fun.

 

Capn' D

32 Cal
MLF Supporter
Joined
May 2, 2019
Messages
25
Reaction score
22
Location
Blairsville, Georgia
I’d love to hear more of the story if you don’t mind.
Not too sure that there is a lot more to it. This was or had been the old farmers prime breeding pig for some years and even though it was dangerous he had preserved it every Fall. The whole community drove the pigs into the hog pens every October. Everyone knew and sort of hated the pig but like all the others he was rounded up. I remember that there was some concern how they would move him home from the pens because he would gore horses and people but some local Indians agreed for a price to move him and then baited him for miles to the farmers home. But when he arrived he attacked the owner and I believe he broke his leg. Anyway, he decided it was not worth the risk so He just shot the pig in the head at close range with a .74 caliber ball. When butchering the big boy he kept pulling initialed balls from the pig. Some were returned to their owners and stories of how and why they had tried to put the pig down over several years came to light. One thing I wondered was how tainted the meat would have been by having 13 lead balls leeching lead into it.

Another related story. I am 68 today. When I was about 18 or so I was shooting a smoothbore .69 with 3 ring conical bullets (I know makes no sense, but I was) and by mistake, fired one into a large oak tree. I had missed my shot and I did not notice the shot striking there. Then about 1995, my father called and was really excited for me to see something. A large oak had fallen below his house and he was sawing it up for firewood. The saw had cut perfectly through the middle of that .69 conical minie and it was perfectly visible in a slice he cut out. He thought he had found a Civil War period minie ball. I had to disillusion him. But what was more, surrounding that ball was a round, probably 10" in diameter circle of poisoned, gray wood where the ball had been killing that tree since the late 1960s. I can just imagine how much faster that lead from those rifle balls probably leeched into that pork. 'Course in 1820, they didn't even know that heavily leaded pewter would kill you. And the natural taste of lead is sweet for some odd reason. So they might have not considered that pork corrupted. I would not have eaten it!!

The folks over 90 in our community who have kept so many of the local lore alive are slipping away from us now faster and faster. And due to folks wanting homes in the mountains, half the county residents at this time have lived here less than 15 years. All the stories will be lost. Happy to pass a few more along if you are interested. My home here was built originally in 1838, added to in 1915 and finally again in 1964. We inherited the house from family in 2010. With the house came a good bit of weird spooky history as well as some we are still trying to pry open!
 

rodwha

58 Cal.
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
2,795
Reaction score
212
Location
Lakeway, TX
Not too sure that there is a lot more to it. This was or had been the old farmers prime breeding pig for some years and even though it was dangerous he had preserved it every Fall. The whole community drove the pigs into the hog pens every October. Everyone knew and sort of hated the pig but like all the others he was rounded up. I remember that there was some concern how they would move him home from the pens because he would gore horses and people but some local Indians agreed for a price to move him and then baited him for miles to the farmers home. But when he arrived he attacked the owner and I believe he broke his leg. Anyway, he decided it was not worth the risk so He just shot the pig in the head at close range with a .74 caliber ball. When butchering the big boy he kept pulling initialed balls from the pig. Some were returned to their owners and stories of how and why they had tried to put the pig down over several years came to light. One thing I wondered was how tainted the meat would have been by having 13 lead balls leeching lead into it.

Another related story. I am 68 today. When I was about 18 or so I was shooting a smoothbore .69 with 3 ring conical bullets (I know makes no sense, but I was) and by mistake, fired one into a large oak tree. I had missed my shot and I did not notice the shot striking there. Then about 1995, my father called and was really excited for me to see something. A large oak had fallen below his house and he was sawing it up for firewood. The saw had cut perfectly through the middle of that .69 conical minie and it was perfectly visible in a slice he cut out. He thought he had found a Civil War period minie ball. I had to disillusion him. But what was more, surrounding that ball was a round, probably 10" in diameter circle of poisoned, gray wood where the ball had been killing that tree since the late 1960s. I can just imagine how much faster that lead from those rifle balls probably leeched into that pork. 'Course in 1820, they didn't even know that heavily leaded pewter would kill you. And the natural taste of lead is sweet for some odd reason. So they might have not considered that pork corrupted. I would not have eaten it!!

The folks over 90 in our community who have kept so many of the local lore alive are slipping away from us now faster and faster. And due to folks wanting homes in the mountains, half the county residents at this time have lived here less than 15 years. All the stories will be lost. Happy to pass a few more along if you are interested. My home here was built originally in 1838, added to in 1915 and finally again in 1964. We inherited the house from family in 2010. With the house came a good bit of weird spooky history as well as some we are still trying to pry open!
A most excellent story! Thanks for sharing more.

I have to admit that a pig was one thing I really never want to have to track. Thankfully I’ve shot only one and he didn’t move more than an inch. We often hear the stories of pigs attacking, but I always figured this to be wounded hogs, that those stories were more fable. But like people animals have personalities too. Sure can be some cantankerous old pigs out there.

I think it’s great there are people such as yourself keeping the history alive. I hated history as a youth, but as I’ve grown I’ve found myself respecting and admiring things long gone these days. I love stories so any you’d like to share would no doubt be appreciated.
 

rodwha

58 Cal.
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
2,795
Reaction score
212
Location
Lakeway, TX
Next year for deer season I will be switching to round ball. To date I have only used maxi's.
Yes! I’ve been amazed by what a silly sphere seems to be able to do so now I want to see it for myself. Had I not found this site I’d be using nothing but conicals or unmentionables and would have missed all of this.
 

Capn' D

32 Cal
MLF Supporter
Joined
May 2, 2019
Messages
25
Reaction score
22
Location
Blairsville, Georgia
HINT: Don't drink any more of the blue Koolaide.
Not sure of your meaning. I personally saw the huge discolored area in that oak log section. Would the lead not have leeched into the pork if it had been shot repeatedly over a couple of years? And would it not be toxic? I have no idea.

Funny story though, I had a bag of .680 round balls sitting on my desk at home (fairly old) and a guy from Window World stopped by with a quote. He saw them sitting there and noticed that there was some lead oxide on them. He was about terrified out of his mind. Apparently, some videos he had been shown depict all lead, and especially lead oxide as fatal to even view from three feet away. He did all he could to get me to throw them out (without touching them) right then and there.
 

rickpa

36 Cl.
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
64
Reaction score
47
There were several mountain men who carried lead in their bodies until they died....... from old age. Jim Bridger comes to mind.
 

Loyalist Dave

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
Nov 22, 2011
Messages
9,357
Reaction score
2,194
Location
People's Republic of Maryland
Not sure of your meaning. I personally saw the huge discolored area in that oak log section. Would the lead not have leeched into the pork if it had been shot repeatedly over a couple of years? And would it not be toxic? I have no idea.
Nope.
Lead poisoning comes from lead oxide, not plain lead, in most cases of which I've read. It's a white powder that was used a lot as an oil based paint pigment, and it is reported to have a slight sweet taste. It was the lead oxide in the paint chips in cheap, welfare dwellings that was poisoning the kids in the 1970's. Doctors regularly leave lead bullets in gunshot victims so long as the slug itself isn't interfering with the actions of the body.

Waterfowl would get lead poisoning from ingesting old shot that had oxidized on the bottom of a lake or pond. They would dive down to get some "pebbles" for their digestive tract, and lead pellets apparently feel like pebbles. These would stay in the duck for a while and transfer the oxide that had formed, and poison the animals.

KΔLIFOЯИIÁ has a ban in many areas if not the whole state on lead projectiles, supposedly because condors are ingesting lead bullets or pellets from wounded game that gets away and later dies. It might be a problem for ingesting shot though highly unlikely unless the hunters were using "reclaimed shot", but not likely at all for a rifle bullet (imho), and if the birds are showing lead contamination, I'd submit that the lead projectile vector is darn poor science, and if they are serious about preserving the species, they should find the true source. OF COURSE they may already know the true source for the majority of the exposure, and simply tossed in the "lead pellet/bullet flake" portion as part of another agenda, again imho.

LD
 

Capn' D

32 Cal
MLF Supporter
Joined
May 2, 2019
Messages
25
Reaction score
22
Location
Blairsville, Georgia
Nope.
Lead poisoning comes from lead oxide, not plain lead, in most cases of which I've read. It's a white powder that was used a lot as an oil based paint pigment, and it is reported to have a slight sweet taste. It was the lead oxide in the paint chips in cheap, welfare dwellings that was poisoning the kids in the 1970's. Doctors regularly leave lead bullets in gunshot victims so long as the slug itself isn't interfering with the actions of the body.

Waterfowl would get lead poisoning from ingesting old shot that had oxidized on the bottom of a lake or pond. They would dive down to get some "pebbles" for their digestive tract, and lead pellets apparently feel like pebbles. These would stay in the duck for a while and transfer the oxide that had formed, and poison the animals.

KΔLIFOЯИIÁ has a ban in many areas if not the whole state on lead projectiles, supposedly because condors are ingesting lead bullets or pellets from wounded game that gets away and later dies. It might be a problem for ingesting shot though highly unlikely unless the hunters were using "reclaimed shot", but not likely at all for a rifle bullet (imho), and if the birds are showing lead contamination, I'd submit that the lead projectile vector is darn poor science, and if they are serious about preserving the species, they should find the true source. OF COURSE they may already know the true source for the majority of the exposure, and simply tossed in the "lead pellet/bullet flake" portion as part of another agenda, again imho.

LD
So in future I'll make sure my balls are shiny! shooting smoothbore all the time, I've been neglectful and shot a fair number of whiter ones over the years...haha
 

Griz44Mag

62 Cal.
MLF Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2017
Messages
2,816
Reaction score
1,843
Location
Republic of Texas, District of Krum
Not sure of your meaning. I personally saw the huge discolored area in that oak log section. Would the lead not have leeched into the pork if it had been shot repeatedly over a couple of years? And would it not be toxic? I have no idea.

Funny story though, I had a bag of .680 round balls sitting on my desk at home (fairly old) and a guy from Window World stopped by with a quote. He saw them sitting there and noticed that there was some lead oxide on them. He was about terrified out of his mind. Apparently, some videos he had been shown depict all lead, and especially lead oxide as fatal to even view from three feet away. He did all he could to get me to throw them out (without touching them) right then and there.
Elemental lead is not toxic. Some lead compounds - like in older paints - are - because of the compounds.
Do a little Googling - you will find hundreds of cases where soldiers, hunters, etc..... have been carrying lead around inside and none of them have died or tested high in toxic lead. The discolored area in the tree you reference was likely due to the physical damage healing or sap release of the tree. No different than the scars you find on pretty much anything living that has been physically damaged.
I worked with a guy many years ago that had lead fragments in his spinal column - deposited there by a Korean in the great undeclared war between the USA and China. He passed on a few years back in an auto accident. He carried his lead with him for over 60 years - never showed up in a blood test - but showed up every time he went through a security scanner. From what I have read - even if you swallow lead - it will pass through your system before the acids in your system can break any of it down.
 

toot

32 Cal.
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
1,933
Reaction score
661
There were several mountain men who carried lead in their bodies until they died....... from old age. Jim Bridger comes to mind.
also both STONE & IRON ARROW HEADS, JIM BRIGER also I beleave. GOD, these were relay MEN, NO SISSIES IN THEM!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

rodwha

58 Cal.
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
2,795
Reaction score
212
Location
Lakeway, TX
I looked up ole Jim here. Interesting but they left out the details such as surviving with projectiles and embedded.

Anyone ever read Journal of a Trapper by Osborne Russell of Maine? His journal runs from 1834 to 1843 in the Rockies, though it states he lived in the mountains of Oregon and later in California. It was given to me by my old boss. He said it was rather slow as life would normally be on paper. I’ve yet to begin.
 

hanshi

Cannon
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
10,221
Reaction score
1,453
As an aside only. Alexander The Great suffered an arrow to the chest during a battle. This arrowhead is said to have been "barbed" making removal tricky. But removed it was! There was a device back then that kept damage to a minimum while removing the point. Some sources report that he still had problems related to the wound for a long time.
 

bprvan

32 Cal
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
12
Reaction score
3
Location
Cermichael California
Nope.
Lead poisoning comes from lead oxide, not plain lead, in most cases of which I've read. It's a white powder that was used a lot as an oil based paint pigment, and it is reported to have a slight sweet taste. It was the lead oxide in the paint chips in cheap, welfare dwellings that was poisoning the kids in the 1970's. Doctors regularly leave lead bullets in gunshot victims so long as the slug itself isn't interfering with the actions of the body.

Waterfowl would get lead poisoning from ingesting old shot that had oxidized on the bottom of a lake or pond. They would dive down to get some "pebbles" for their digestive tract, and lead pellets apparently feel like pebbles. These would stay in the duck for a while and transfer the oxide that had formed, and poison the animals.

KΔLIFOЯИIÁ has a ban in many areas if not the whole state on lead projectiles, supposedly because condors are ingesting lead bullets or pellets from wounded game that gets away and later dies. It might be a problem for ingesting shot though highly unlikely unless the hunters were using "reclaimed shot", but not likely at all for a rifle bullet (imho), and if the birds are showing lead contamination, I'd submit that the lead projectile vector is darn poor science, and if they are serious about preserving the species, they should find the true source. OF COURSE they may already know the true source for the majority of the exposure, and simply tossed in the "lead pellet/bullet flake" portion as part of another agenda, again imho.

LD
You are absolutely correct about "another agenda". That fake science about the condors was promulgated by the University of Kalifornia , and promoted by politicians : what else would run with a lie and turn it into a law ,
.......... (edited by Zonie)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Zonie

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
MLF Supporter
Joined
Oct 4, 2003
Messages
31,769
Reaction score
4,902
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Do not post political comments on the forum outside of the Premium Member area.
 
Top