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Paper cartridge w or w/o bullet
- Thread starter paleryder
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The less paper at the back of the cartridge- the better. Some folks think the flame of a percussion cap burns through the paper to ignite the charge but what actually happens is the force ruptures the case and explodes the charge. I have used very thin metal foil instead of paper and it works fine- the residue however is a problem.
So.... a lot of folks crunch up excess paper at the back of the cartridge but the ideal thing is to use cigarette paper and cut out an isoceles trapazoid with the long base on top and the short base on the bottom (note there will be an integral trapdoor as well). The gummed part of the paper is on top and will be on the inside of the case when you roll the paper. Roll the paper around a dowell tapered to meet your particular firearm. The sides of the trapazoid overlap and are glued with a glue stick.
At the bottom of the trapazoid add a small square or trapdoor which will be bent over the paper tube to close the bottom of the case- the sides of the trap door are crunched up around the sides and held with a glue stick but the back of the case is only one thickness of cigarette paper. Fill the case with about 17 grns of fffg and then place a conical bullet in about 1/8" and wet the top of the case such that the moisture goes through the paper and activates the glue and attaches the case to the conical. Hold for about 30 seconds and then carefully set aside for the paper/glue to dry. I store my rounds in an altoid can and add tissue paper to keep the rounds from moving around and breaking.
Make sure you inspect the chambers for any possible embers before reloading.
So.... a lot of folks crunch up excess paper at the back of the cartridge but the ideal thing is to use cigarette paper and cut out an isoceles trapazoid with the long base on top and the short base on the bottom (note there will be an integral trapdoor as well). The gummed part of the paper is on top and will be on the inside of the case when you roll the paper. Roll the paper around a dowell tapered to meet your particular firearm. The sides of the trapazoid overlap and are glued with a glue stick.
At the bottom of the trapazoid add a small square or trapdoor which will be bent over the paper tube to close the bottom of the case- the sides of the trap door are crunched up around the sides and held with a glue stick but the back of the case is only one thickness of cigarette paper. Fill the case with about 17 grns of fffg and then place a conical bullet in about 1/8" and wet the top of the case such that the moisture goes through the paper and activates the glue and attaches the case to the conical. Hold for about 30 seconds and then carefully set aside for the paper/glue to dry. I store my rounds in an altoid can and add tissue paper to keep the rounds from moving around and breaking.
Make sure you inspect the chambers for any possible embers before reloading.
Thanks for the reference. I was just wondering, based on experience, does one method work better than another. In particular, I wondered if it worked better to just make a powder-charge wrapped in paper or to incorporate the ball/bullet in one of the many fashions. I just had a hunch that not putting the ball in the cartridge might make the package with the powder less fragile. The phonebook paper looks quite sturdy but I'm probably leaning towards cigarett paper. I could nitrate the phonebook paper, I suppose.
I've always incorperated the ball into the cartridge. There are a few ways you can do that but I don't know of any that overcome the fragility of the paper. I just handle mine carefully and I'm OK with them breaking in the chamber during loading as they will ignite easier.
Don
Don
I tear off the bottom right before I load them so there is bare powder at the nipple area. I also make them so the ball is in the cartridge.
The panplet will tell you how to make your dowels to form the paper around them it will also tell how to nitrate the paper but cig papers are the fastest and easiest way also has diagrams on what shape to cut the paper it refers to 44 an 36 cal.I tried it years ago and made lots of them then just went back to powder and ball.
Blizzard of '93
Cannon
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a .44 spcl case full of 3f with a cork plug is a good powder charge carrier for the .45's
dump the powder, press the ball/slug and smear some stiff grease atop.
dump the powder, press the ball/slug and smear some stiff grease atop.
Blizzard of 93 said:
I use a 7.62x39 case for my 1860. Seems to hold around 27 grains for a measure. I'll bet someone could fashion a cheap cork to make a cartridge. Its bottle neck makes dumping the charge easy. But alas I'd have to dump a few grains to make room for the cork
Bob
It would help if you told us what you are trying to accomplish. If you are going to be taking the revolver afield and don't want to pack along a flask, ball bag, etc, then it is a convenience to have some paper cartridges and caps in an Altoid can. It is all you need although some grease over the chamber ends would be a good idea.
The shortcoming of this set up is the possibility of some burnt paper residue in the chambers- this is because the cigarette paper is a low quality option, a better nitrated paper ought to fully consume.
The other choice is to fill and plug some brass cases - as noted- with proper powder charges, plus wads and either balls or conicals- again - all stored in an altoids can along with some caps. Balls are usually more accurate than most conicals so that would also be a very viable option, in fact, with the lubed wads (MUCH SAFER)- it is really a better option IMHO, the only advantage of the paper cartridges is speed of reloading- maybe 20 seconds- I can reload about as fast as with a Peacemaker since the spent cases on the Peacemaker don't have to be removed.
On breaking the paper case to insure ignition. This may have to do with the nipples being used but the percussion cap ought to be powerful enough to rupture a paper case. As I said I got some very thin foil and experimented with that because Sam Colt started with foil. The caps burst through the foil but the residue is ample and after about 3 rounds you cannot seat another cartridge and the conical- sticking out the end of the chamber makes it impossible for the cylinder to rotate- a big mess. Sam Colt experienced the same problem. The Colt cartridges were nitrated fish gut- as I understand matters- and they were rather dangerous- the factory blew up, killing some workers, all women incidentally as they seemed better at the work.
I have also used plain newspaper for cartridges. This paper is about three times thicker than the cigarette paper- but once again the caps burst through and ignite the charge. The problem with the newprint is there is unburnt paper fragments left in the chamber that could easily hold a spark/ember.
Which brings up a point that ought to be repeated just in case someone isn't on board. The nitrating is NOT DONE to facilitate the cap burning through the paper to ignite the charge. The nitrating is done to address the danger of an ember left in the chamber. The nitrating is intended to burn up any paper residue.
The shortcoming of this set up is the possibility of some burnt paper residue in the chambers- this is because the cigarette paper is a low quality option, a better nitrated paper ought to fully consume.
The other choice is to fill and plug some brass cases - as noted- with proper powder charges, plus wads and either balls or conicals- again - all stored in an altoids can along with some caps. Balls are usually more accurate than most conicals so that would also be a very viable option, in fact, with the lubed wads (MUCH SAFER)- it is really a better option IMHO, the only advantage of the paper cartridges is speed of reloading- maybe 20 seconds- I can reload about as fast as with a Peacemaker since the spent cases on the Peacemaker don't have to be removed.
On breaking the paper case to insure ignition. This may have to do with the nipples being used but the percussion cap ought to be powerful enough to rupture a paper case. As I said I got some very thin foil and experimented with that because Sam Colt started with foil. The caps burst through the foil but the residue is ample and after about 3 rounds you cannot seat another cartridge and the conical- sticking out the end of the chamber makes it impossible for the cylinder to rotate- a big mess. Sam Colt experienced the same problem. The Colt cartridges were nitrated fish gut- as I understand matters- and they were rather dangerous- the factory blew up, killing some workers, all women incidentally as they seemed better at the work.
I have also used plain newspaper for cartridges. This paper is about three times thicker than the cigarette paper- but once again the caps burst through and ignite the charge. The problem with the newprint is there is unburnt paper fragments left in the chamber that could easily hold a spark/ember.
Which brings up a point that ought to be repeated just in case someone isn't on board. The nitrating is NOT DONE to facilitate the cap burning through the paper to ignite the charge. The nitrating is done to address the danger of an ember left in the chamber. The nitrating is intended to burn up any paper residue.
Just a simple minded observation here;
But I always held the thought that a "Paper Cartridge" was indeed a roll of paper with powder and a projectile.
If it didn't have a "bullet" it wouldn't really be a "cartridge" :idunno:
I have rolled just powder in a paper and used them as parade load blanks,,,
But I always held the thought that a "Paper Cartridge" was indeed a roll of paper with powder and a projectile.
If it didn't have a "bullet" it wouldn't really be a "cartridge" :idunno:
I have rolled just powder in a paper and used them as parade load blanks,,,
I have found that with rolling paper the caps do not always get through the paper to the powder. So I have made it a habit to break the bottom of the cartridge and be sure that bare powder is in the bottom of the chamber.
My original goal was to faciliate easy loading at the "range" which is a field. We set up a card table and put a target up in a safe place. It is a little awkward measuring out powder in a relatively open place and can get messy.
I thought of putting powder in paper alone or possibly doing a full cartridge. I tried a couple of different methods last night with cigarette paper. Had modest success. I put the ball in all of them. In one version, I wrapped the ball in the cigarette paper. In the other version, I used a dowel to form the tube and glued the ball in the end. Haven't fire them so I'm not sure how it will work.
I went to the hardware store today and picked up some potassium nitrate in the form of stump remover. I'm going to nitrate some phonebook pages and try that too, probably without the ball included. The residue of paper not fully burned up seems a serious safety concern.
I'm going to shoot next week. I'll report back how it works. Thanks for all your help.
I thought of putting powder in paper alone or possibly doing a full cartridge. I tried a couple of different methods last night with cigarette paper. Had modest success. I put the ball in all of them. In one version, I wrapped the ball in the cigarette paper. In the other version, I used a dowel to form the tube and glued the ball in the end. Haven't fire them so I'm not sure how it will work.
I went to the hardware store today and picked up some potassium nitrate in the form of stump remover. I'm going to nitrate some phonebook pages and try that too, probably without the ball included. The residue of paper not fully burned up seems a serious safety concern.
I'm going to shoot next week. I'll report back how it works. Thanks for all your help.
Watch this guy,
note the tube he uses is very close to the size of the ball, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8CF3h1PkMk
note the tube he uses is very close to the size of the ball, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8CF3h1PkMk
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I went to the range yesterday and tried out a variety of paper cartridges. I had made three types: cigarette paper with bullet wrapped inside the paper cartridge when the cartridge was being formed, cigarette paper where the ball was glued in one end after the cartridge was formed and nitrated paper with only the powder inside.
They all seemed to work fairly well. It was nice not having to measure the powder out while at the range. I did have several cartridges break during loading because they were too big. This caused a mess on the cylinder and required some cleaning because I didn't want a bunch of powder lingering on the face of the cylinder. The few that were small enough just slid right in. Most were over-sized so I started tearing the bottoms out of the cartridges and pouring the powder in. Although not what I planned, it still reduced reloading time.
Some paper did get left in the chambers. I did this once and a while while at the range and dug the paper out but some was unknown to me because it was difficult to see. The bits of paper came out during the cleaning process.
No misfires, hang fire or chain fires. Not a bad experiment. I might try it one more time and make smaller cartridges. If this doesn't work out, I will probably still make pre-measured powder packs to expedite loading in the field.
FWIW,
Todd
They all seemed to work fairly well. It was nice not having to measure the powder out while at the range. I did have several cartridges break during loading because they were too big. This caused a mess on the cylinder and required some cleaning because I didn't want a bunch of powder lingering on the face of the cylinder. The few that were small enough just slid right in. Most were over-sized so I started tearing the bottoms out of the cartridges and pouring the powder in. Although not what I planned, it still reduced reloading time.
Some paper did get left in the chambers. I did this once and a while while at the range and dug the paper out but some was unknown to me because it was difficult to see. The bits of paper came out during the cleaning process.
No misfires, hang fire or chain fires. Not a bad experiment. I might try it one more time and make smaller cartridges. If this doesn't work out, I will probably still make pre-measured powder packs to expedite loading in the field.
FWIW,
Todd
Bear Rider
45 Cal.
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I make the cartridges for my Remington '58 with a long taper, long enough that the paper touches the bottom of the chamber when the ball is resting on the cylinder face. This serves two purposes -- it's easier to slip the cartridge into the chamber, and the paper ruptures when the ball is rammed down.
I'm paranoid about smoldering paper, so I made a short handle for a mop. I swab out each chamber before I reload. I don't know if it actually accomplishes anything, but it makes me feel better.
I'm paranoid about smoldering paper, so I made a short handle for a mop. I swab out each chamber before I reload. I don't know if it actually accomplishes anything, but it makes me feel better.
