No Lock clearance on bottom!!!

[Davemuzz]

Man....am I glad this forum is here!!! Ok, this is my 15th bazillion-th post on my pistol build. I just hope this shoots well when it's all said 'n done!!

Ok....I was puttin all the "stuff" back on the lock to make the marks on my stock....to do the deep drillings on my drill press for clearance of the lock parts.

Well.....as I'm "eyein" up the lock, I NOW notice that at the bottom of the lock....there is ZERO clearance between the lock spring at the bottom...and the lock plate.

Actually, when you look at the lock straight on, the lock spring and the hammer catch hang down a few thousands below the lock plate.

Here are a few pics:

Now, I know these don't give you the best image (I'm not gonna set up my camera right now) :blah: but you can get the idea.

Now the hook on the spring just makes it onto the hook on the hammer....so there really isn't any room to file down any metal here. I could file down some of the thickness of the long spring and make some room for clearance of the lock plate to have a small ridge to rest on a ledge of wood on the stock.

I'm going to leave the stock (wood) alone "in the middle" so the lock can have some wood right there to rest against.

But.....a little professional help here would be great. :idunno: :bull: :shocked2:

Thanks

Dave

 

[Robby]

Dave, one way is to take some shim stock of varying thickness, or a feeler gauge, and put it between the cock and the boss on the plate that stops it from rotating. A feeler gauge works nice cause, as you experiment with just how high you want to lift it, you will know exactly the thickness you need for the job. Once the thickness is determined, solder the shim to either the cock or the plate boss. I would put it on the shelf of the cock, and then file it to match. Good luck.
Robby

 

[Birddog6]

I would send the lock back & tell them you want one built Correctly....... It also appears the frizzen spring is almost, if not off the lockplate edge, but that may be the angle of the photo.

Keith Lisle

 

[paulvallandigham]

Dave: Look at the upper arm of the mainspring. See the curved "tab" that fits up in a slot in the underside of the bolster???

You can take that spring out, and file that tab shorter by 1/16 " or more, and that will change the entire angle of the spring to the plate, and tumbler, raising the mainspring up against the plate. That will give you clearance that you need.

Now, look at the HOOK at the end of the lower arm of the mainspring. You can clamp the end of the arm in a vise, to act as a Heat sink, and heat the hook up red hot to bend it flatter. Use a piece of iron pipe as a forming tool. The hook does not have to be opened much to raise the contact point on the inside curve of the horn on the tumbler. Now, file the end of the hook back so that it tracks the entire length of that inside curve, and round the end. That part of the Spring( the hook) does Not have to be hardened.

As for the clearance of the horn on the tumbler, above the bottom edge of the plate, there is enough " Meat" on the bottom of the horn to allow you to file off enough metal so that it doesn't extend below the edge of the plate.

You should talk to the manufacturer of this lock about these problems, as the lock should not have left the factory with these problems, IMHO. Its one thing to have the belly of the hammer swing down past the bottom edge of the lock plate: its quite another to have the main spring, and the horn of the tumbler move below the edge of the plate. :thumbsup:

 

[ol vern]

I agree with birddog6 Send it back .

 

[chazmo]

You need a new tumbler. Either it wasn't cast properly, or too much metal was machined off where it stops against the lockplate. You can fiddle with the mainspring if you want, but I don't think it will make a difference. Either send the whole lock back, or request a properly machined tumbler.

 

[Davemuzz]

Thanks for your responses.

Paul, I just got done....after staring at it for about 10 or 15 minutes, doing exactly what you said concerning the filing of the long spring at the top. I cleaned up the "grove" on the lock plate as that had some metal burr's in it, and then I took a small metal file to the "L" shaped catch. I figured it may take some of the spring strength out of it....but it couldn't possibly be that much.

For the little that I did, I now have at least a 1\16" of a ledge to work with....which isn't enough yet....so I will do a bit more.

I did try to whack the hook with just a brass hammer and no heat. :applause: :youcrazy: just to see if it had any give at all in it. Yeah....NADA...ZIP....NONE. So, once I'm done with the filing I'll look to see how much, if any hook heating\whackin I need to do.

As far as the spring on "da other side", the pic I've got is at a bad angle. There is just enough room for adequate clearance. But I will agree....they had the new guy put this one together.

I really don't want to return it as I have my wood fitting this one just perfectly. I'd rather just make this one work than get on the merry-go-round with the send it back routine.

Dave

 

[Vaino]

If you haven't altered the bottom of the lock plate,I'd send it back. The mainspring and tumbler "hook" are both too low and damage will occur to the stock...it certainly won't get any better w/ use. Otherwise as was said, weld onto the cock ledge that rests on the lockplate which will restrict the tumbler travel and therefore the main spring. On most locks, the bridle stop isn't in play and should be, but the cock ledge does most of the work....Fred

 

[necchi]

another one for send it back, with the photo's you've taken.

 

[mikemeteor]

I really don't want to return it as I have my wood fitting this one just perfectly.
Dave

I can understand that sentiment - there may be a middle ground -- maybe, depending on the source of the problem, they can make it right with some new internals installed on your original lock plate/bolster, and thus preserving your existing fitting efforts. :hmm: can't hurt to ask.

 

[Vaino]

This isn't a criticism because I don't know your level of expertise, but any lock when rec'd should be inspected for a number of things...especially the problem you're encountering. The tumbler fit vs hole dia., cock fit on square tumbler boss, amount of difference between cock at home and half and full cock as shown by the sear bar, alignment of tumbler bridle hole vs tumbler plate hole, whether sear stays engaged w/o sear spring, fit of frizzen to top of pan, frizzen "pops" open before flint clears and many other possible requirements.....Fred

 

[Zonie]

You aren't the first one to see this condition on a new lock.

I've had several over the years that were similar but I used them anyway.

The thing is, a lock does not have to be pulled straight out of the stock when you remove or install it.

With that in mind the mortice that fits the outside of the lockplate can be as it should be, fitting the entire lock plate profile.

Down inside the lockplate mortice inside where the inner surface of the lock plate will be, a small pocket can be carved into the wooden wall. This small pocket will provide the clearance that the dangling end of the tumbler needs and it will work fine.

If this is done, to install or remove the lock from the stock you simply rotate the upper part of the lock outward slightly and remove the lock.
Another way to deal with this is to place the cock/hammer in the half cock notch when installing or removing the lock.

Yes, having a lock without this problem is the best answer but if that is not doable it isn't hard to work around the problem.

 

[Davemuzz]

I appreciate all of your responses to my post. So far I haven't touched the lock plate itself, and I don't expect that I will.

However, I believe that with some careful filing of the mainspring, and possibly (maybe....maybe not) some tweaking of the spring hook, I will be able to get the same amount of clearance that swapping out for a new one will get me.

And I won't be concerned about a new one either not fitting as well as I have this one fitting.

So.....I won't have time until next week to have at it....but I'll keep you guys posted.

Again, you all have been most helpful.

Thanks.

Dave

 

[Zonie]

If it were me, I would not file the mainspring or the tumbler.

There isn't much material there and it is all highly stressed.

The last thing you want to do is to weaken that area of the tumbler because if the tip of the tumbler breaks off there that mainspring will literally blow a hole right thru the bottom of the stock when it lets go.

Also, because both parts there are hardened you will probably ruin a good file or two by trying to file them.

Either find another lock without the problem or cut a clearance for it in the wood.
As I tried to say before, this clearance does not extend out to the flat face of the lock panal. It is hidden inside the lock cavity.

At least that's my two cents.

 

[Davemuzz]

Zonie,

Sorry....I wasn't very clear. What I ment was I'm going to file a bit more of the upper arm of the mainspring where the small "L" tab fits into the bloc. I don't think this was fitted at all by the lockmaker. I have some "wiggle" room here and I believe this will "move" everything on the bottom up.

I do agree with you that I'm not going to file or grind anything on the spring steel. Making spring steel thinner doesn't seem to "fit" well in my tiny piece of gray matter! :nono:

Thanks.

Dave

 

[Old Salt]

I have a Queen Annes pistol lock installed on a youth rifle. My lock has a similar alignment of the main spring hook and the tumbler horn. My lock didn't have the same issue with clearance of the main spring though.

Placing a shim between the cock and the lock plate will hold the tumbler horn higher but creates another problem with the way the flint scrapes the frizzen. On my lock the last 1/8th" to 3/16th" of the frizzen does not get used since the cock stops rotating due to the stops on the tumbler and the lock plate/cock.

My feeling is the problems are due to the overall design of the lock. That said, I should also say the lock works fine and is easy on flints.

Salt

 

[Davemuzz]

:surrender:

Well.....errr....ummmmm......I spent about an hour this am on that lock. With fat magnifying glasses and tiny little metal files.....an some music....coffee.

:surrender:

I sent Chambers an email with some pics. I'm goin to the tire store.....takin my .223 and my huntin license....stopin at some of my favorite groundhog spots and seeing if I can say "HELLO" to a few Groundhogs!!

That always makes a fellow feel better!!!

I got a wedding to go to tomorrow. :rotf: :idunno: Yeah....don't ask.

I'll keep ya posted.

Dave

 

[matt denison]

Changing, filing or modifying the main sprin will not correct your problem.

Your problem is the tumbler is being allowed to rotate too far. The fix for this is to add material to the shelf on the backside of the cock where its forward movement is stopped by hitting the top of the lock plate. Or I suppose you could add material to the top of the lock plate. That would depend on what resourses you have available ie; soldering or TIG welder, etc.

Stopping the cock a tiny bit sooner will not affect anything except 1. where the cock stops and consequently the position of the tumbler and 2. Where the flint is pointing at the end of the throw. On some locks it is common to actually remove material from the back shelf of the cock to get the flint pointing further down into the pan at the end of the throw.

On many lock plates the castings have a large sprue right there behind the flash guard. in the process of removing that sprue (grinding or machiniing) it is possible to remove TOO MUCH and this can lead to the problem that you have here. I don't want to have to explain how I know this.. :cursing:

If you don't have the resources to fix this or don't have the confidence to perform the work then do as Birdog says and send it back to let a professional do the work..probably for free. Give the manufacturer a chance to fix his mistake.

 

[Birddog6]

You can take that spring out, and file that tab shorter by 1/16 " or more, and that will change the entire angle of the spring to the plate, and tumbler, raising the mainspring up against the plate. That will give you clearance that you need.
:thumbsup:

Paul.... that will lessen spring tension, & change the position of the TOP of the mainspring, but not the bottom. The spring is partially compressed & the bottom of it is carried by the tumbler. It is where it is...... on the tumbler shoe & too low. Thus the pivot point of the mainspring is drilled incorrectly or the tumbler hole is not correct or the tumbler is not correct.

The lock needs to go back to the Manufacturer.

IMHO, the spring below the lock inlet is Not a acceptable solution. :shake: You forget to pull the hammer to remove the lock or worse yet, sell the rifle & someone don't know, they break the side out of the lock inlet because someone didn't build the lock correctly. That is not right. Regardless of it being done before or by whoever, that is not a quality fix. Send the lock back & have it repaired correctly.

Keith Lisle

 

[Birddog6]

:surrender:
I sent Chambers an email with some pics.
Dave

Dave, You never mentioned it was a Chambers lock. You shouldn't have touched it. It did have a lifetime warranty on it, well, it did until you worked on it. :idunno:

They may be off to Dixon's Gun Fair, so they may not answer you right away. You should have called them & mailed it to them & they would have immediately repaired or replaced it & had it back in a week total turnaround. I have bought dozens of locks from them & they back their products. How they handle one someone worked on, I can't tell ya. I can tell ya they will be most fair.

Keith Lisle