Need more patching eduction - please

[B.Habermehl]

It sounds to me the sight issue is making more of a problem than the patch and lube combo is. I think you will benefit more from a thicker front sight and a wider notch in the rear. Just my long term experience with muzzloaders and open sights. Your shorter rifle idea will make iron sights more difficult to use. Due to ageing eyes.
BJH

 

[EC121]

Rifleman1776: It has nothing to do with the bore size. I use .487 balls because the grooves at .016" are really too deep to seal at without approx. .023" patching. Because the thick patch is too thick between the ball and the land, I use a smaller ball to make it easier to load. I don't want to hammer the ball in the muzzle. If you have blown patches or cut patches, things aren't sized right or the crown is too sharp. If I was going to order a barrel today, it would be the Rice square groove barrel, but I got some deals on Colerain barrels and bought some custom rifles with Rice and Colerain barrels. IMO grooves of .004" to .010" are adequate to spin a ball. Any more than .010" is marketing.

 

[Rifleman1776]

EC, I don't have my .50 cal. round groove barrel in hand yet to comment first hand. But, I have had, and shot, bunches of other barrels over the years. I am a proponent of soft lead for the round balls. I have found a larger ball will shoot well using a good patch. I said "good", not thicker. An excellent material is ticking or denim and they are popular for a reason. A ball that some would consider 'oversized' does need help getting started but, again from experience, is usually the most accurate. I used to use a .457" ball in my .45 cal. rifles for the best 'X' hunting accuracy. It is hard to start them. Being a bit less fussy these days I use .445" balls. We'll see what my .50 Rice likes when it gets here.

 

[Ketchakah]

Sorry been doing that for 35 years and never had a problem. So "Hooey" would be your opinion.

 

[EC121]

That is why they make chocolate and vanilla. So everyone will have a choice.
Been shooting BP since 1977, and I got tired of having to climb the steel ramrod to get the ball down just to shoot by myself on my range. No more match shooting. Not much around here. I shoot for fun now and hunt a little. I tried all the bore sized balls loaded with a brass hammer and steel rod, but they didn't shoot any better than my present load. Just more work.
Actually I use the .020 patch with a .487 in my .50cal. rifles. The .023 is used on my Hoyt barreled .62cal. rifle with a .595 ball.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Sorry been doing that for 35 years and never had a problem. So "Hooey" would be your opinion.

Whatever works for you. This is a 'do yer own thang' game. I have seen some strange stuff on ranges over the years. Wat might be nonsense for one shooter will find 'X's for the other.

 

[EC121]

This is a target I shot in August at 50yds. off the bench with my .62cal. rifle. I used a .595 ball and .023 patching. I doubt I could do much better with a .610 ball and thinner patching. I shot the three on the right and tapped the sight left and shot the rest.

 

[MSW]

you may want to look into Dutch Schoultz' system … here's a link http://blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

It might not be possible to get the kind of accuracy possible right now, but next summer is as good a time as any.

Make Good Smoke!

 

[GriscomRun]

My sincere thanks to all ! Here's what I found with your help.
Rifle is a Cabin Creek Yorktown Flint in .50 with 38" Colraine.
Started with 75gr 3F and 018 pillow patch with spit. Warm weather.
Disappointing 6" spread groups. Patches were a reck - blown and cut.

Solutions from the Forum :
JB'd the bore twice cleaning between.
Got some 018 precut in 59 from TOW
Got some TOW Mink Oil Tallow
Applied to the precuts
Drove 124 mi to my old home range
33 degree sunny day
Loaded 75gr 3F
Thumb pressure to place the 490 ball
Tapped in with the nub on the ball starter
Used the 5 in short starter to start
Seated fully without adding extra force
4F on the outside of the pan - my usual practice
Results- still crummy groups. Shot 15 balls.
Cleaning every 5 shots.
Did the truck heater thing 4 times. A must with cold fingers.

OK, one last try cause I had to get going home - long drive. Do not like driving at night.

New Target NRA TQ4 7 inch aiming black - as before.
Dropped down to 70 gr 3F
Everything else the same.

Wham - 3 shots -- on the bench still -- 2 inch group.
Cleaned and went home to the Poconos.

I express my appreciation for your suggestions.
Your knowledge and experience have helped me a great deal.

And I believe that 70gr load will be adequate for the whitetails.

 

[BrownBear]

Last and most important lesson:

When you find patching material that works for you, buy a lifetime supply. The stuff goes out of style, businesses go under and you'll slowly run out and need more.

I really scored when our local Walmart shut down their fabric shop. I had settled on one of their ticking options, and when they folded tent I bought a whole bolt of the stuff for $1 a yard. Come to find out many of my rifles like it, so I go through it at a pretty high rate. But it will still last a lifetime.

 

[Maven]

"Did the truck heater thing 4 times. A must with cold fingers." ...GR

You may want to get some of the hand warmers which use a chemical reaction to generate heat and stick them in your gloves or pockets. You can get them on Amazon, Dick's, etc. and work pretty well. A thermos of hot broth, tea, coffee, etc. also helps.

 

[GriscomRun]

I'll be working on this next spring in better weather. But for now things look promising. 75 gr on left .... 70 gr on right.

Absolutely right on getting more patching mtl. A lot of it.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I don't know where those scattered shots came from on the left target. But you do have a nice 9/10 group in there. The vertical stringing on the right target indicates you need to keep your pressures up. Stick with the 75 gr. or higher. And, do settle on a good patch/lube combo.

 

[hanshi]

EC, I don't have my .50 cal. round groove barrel in hand yet to comment first hand. But, I have had, and shot, bunches of other barrels over the years. I am a proponent of soft lead for the round balls. I have found a larger ball will shoot well using a good patch. I said "good", not thicker. An excellent material is ticking or denim and they are popular for a reason. A ball that some would consider 'oversized' does need help getting started but, again from experience, is usually the most accurate. I used to use a .457" ball in my .45 cal. rifles for the best 'X' hunting accuracy. It is hard to start them. Being a bit less fussy these days I use .445" balls. We'll see what my .50 Rice likes when it gets here.

Rifleman, I have a Rice .50 rb barrel and shoot .490" ball with a thick patch. A thick patch works better for these deep grooves. I am pretty sure I could load a .495" ball just as easily as the .490".

 

[GriscomRun]

Comes with age. Diminished acuity with old eyes. Just can’t see the front sight well. So, a wider sight set is in order.
Something on the order of the Lyman Great Plains rifle.
75 gr would be good if I can get it to group better. But if 70 is more consistent then that’s what I’ll use.
All the above is bench stuff.
Of concern is that I cannot hold this Yorktown steady in the offhand. Rotator cuff tear prevents this.
So I may have to sell this and get a lighter and shorter rifle like a Little Feller’s or English Gent. Sporter. Both have swamped brl at 31 and 32 in.

 

[Twowithone]

Thanks for your feedback. I like them all. Especially helpful from Flintlock Bob. I plan to retry this when the weather turns in springtime. I do understand about my front sight issue. I, like others, have difficulty seeing the front sight. I learned from a female competitor on the National Match Course ( High-power Rifles ) that she switched from the NM .062 front sight to a battle sight and she noted a marked improvement in scoring. I'm out of that competition now but need to see the front for accurate shooting. As the human eye is the actual sight, the mechanical devices we all uses are merely to help in alignment. The eye and shooting will tell us where and how to deal with elevation and windage. I did this on a very inexpensive kit long ago and the technique works just fine for older eyes. Of course, then there is the idea of a shorter rifle barrel too.
Thanks for your helpful suggestions.
And a Merry dose of Seasons Greetings to all.

 

[Twowithone]

I’m also having eye troubles with my 54 cal. I just keep going at it and see what works best

 

[Rifleman1776]

Rifleman, I have a Rice .50 rb barrel and shoot .490" ball with a thick patch. A thick patch works better for these deep grooves. I am pretty sure I could load a .495" ball just as easily as the .490".

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll be trying that combo. But working things out fer yerself if part of the fun in this game. I am pretty sure, once in hand, I'll be a man with one gun.

 

[19 16 6]

Nobody yet mentioned to wash the sizing out of the new patch material.
It is a kind of starch that stiffens the fabric & may make it less likely to absorb lube.
O.

 

[hanshi]

One last thing. I highly recommend polishing any barrel crown so patches won't get cut when started. A thumb and sandpaper will do it. It also allows thicker patching to be used such as denim, canvas, etc.