load for my bess

[whiskeyjoe]

Ok, bros. This is it. I'm sure this question has been asked a jillian times, but to save me from searching through the archived articles, I'm just going to throw this out. I have a Pedersoli Brown Bess,serial no. 7403. I bought it second hand in 1983. I used it during my years as an 1812 re-enactor from '83 to '87. ( Incorporated Militia of Upper Canada, based in Fort York, Toronto).
My question is this. What type of load would be best for both round ball and shot out of this old girl. UP here in the Peoples Republic of Canada, I can't just go to the corner gun store and pick up a box of .715 or .730 round ball. I have to order from south of the border in the last land of the truly free. Would anyone out there with one of these older muskets enlighten me as to which size ball would be best. I don't want to waste time and money trying to figure out what size ball she likes best. Also, if anyone has ever used their Bess to hunt Partridge,etc.what would be, in their opinion, the optimum shot load. All thoughts and opinions greatly appreciated.

 

[paulvallandigham]

You will need to measure the bore diameter on that bess and give us the measurement in thousandths of an inch. Use a caliper to do so. Generally, you are looking for a round ball that is .020" small in diameter than the bore, and a patch material that is at least .015" thick. Powder charges with real Black Powder are in the 80-100 grain range. Everyone works up their own loads. Go to the Member Resources section on the index to this forum, then scroll down to articles, charts and links. click on Charts, and find Stumpkiller's Moose Snot for a home made patch lube that works. His formula for Moose " juice " makes a good cleaning compound. I recommend using Goex FFg powder, but some tables call for using even 1Fg Goex powder. The larger the grain size, the lower the chamber pressure. You may want to keep this in mind considering the age, and condition the gun may be in. Use a Patched Round ball, rather than a bare ball. And consider buying some Circle Fly OP wads( 1/8" thick) to seal the powder charge behind the PRB. it will produce better accuracy, and when you are hurling a round ball out of a smoothbore barrel, you need all the help you can get.

 

[Many Klatch]

I have an older Pedersoli Bess Carbine. I don't know about the full sized ones. My Bess likes .715 ball a .010 patch and 90 grains of 2F. For shot try a balanced load. I use the same measure (90 grains) for both the powder and the shot. That gives you more than twice the shot than is normally prescribed for a 12 ga. Go with shot larger than you would use in a modern gun since we are dealing with less muzzle velocity. You will probably want to use #5 shot for hunting. If loading buck and ball, use one roundball and 4 buck on top of the roundball.

There are a lot of ways to do the shot. You can use an overpowder wad over the powder, then a cushion wad, then shot and overshot wad. That works particularly if the custion wad has been lightly soaked in gun cleaning solution. I have tried leaving out the cushion wads and I have tried using several overshot wads on the powder, no cushion wad, shot and overshot wad. It seems that they all work. You'd just have to try it out at the range and see which pattern suits you best.

Many Klatch

 

[Steve Blancard]

As mentioned, you need to know your bore size to start. Odds are a .735" ball will be too big to use with a patch. Shooting it bare will not give great accuracy compared to a patched ball. A .715" ball will probably be your best choice. By varying the patch thickness you can probably come up with a combination that will work well. Moose Juice is the hot ticket. It cheap, easy to make and works great.

 

[mike alexandre]

You will need to measure the bore as Pedersoli have produced Bess's with different diameters.

 

[dave s]

Drive up to Epp's on Hwy #11 near Orillia, they have all kinds of sizes of round ball.

 

[Parzifal]

I use a 69 cal ball for all my besses, I have a mould. And a few already cast , your welcome to a few if you want to try em out?? P/M sent

Rob

 

[Rob Dinwiddie]

Hi gents,

I have a Pedersoli bess of about the same age. I use tied paper cartridges most of the time and use .715 very successfully. the .730 balls won't load in a fouled barrel with cartridge paper. I have also used .730 round balls with a light patch made of flannel and heavily lubed with Lee 1000+. The difference from a rest at 50 yards is about 2" of extreme spread in favor of the .730. As a traditionalist I personally like cartridges and they fit nicely in your pocket preventing the necessity of possibles bag, horn etc. when hunting. I rarely get more than one or two shots a morning at big game anyway.

I have not hunted partridge but have hunted grouse with 70 grains of Fg. powder, an overpowder wad, a 750 grain charge of No. 8 shot and an overshot wad. The size of the bird is comparable and I find the load to be quite adequate for my yearly limits of upland and mountain scrub grouse. The Fg seems to alleviate a good bit of recoil and pushes the charge more gradually while the weight of shot was determined by starting at the weight of a .730 round ball and modifying slightly for (what I thought to be) better pattern. I have also changed wad materials several times and was at one point even sewing the shot into little hand woven flannel bags that acted as a power piston and then sort of vaporized at the muzzle. When I ran out of hand woven flannel I tried some old pajama flannel but it did not split open like the handwoven stuff and the shot never disbursed so I was merely shooting lead filled bean bags. I usually still fabricate wads from thin cork or pasteboard for overpowder and flannel for over shot. I use the same weight of No. 4 for turkey and No. 1 for Rabbits etc.

Capn D

 

[whiskeyjoe]

Ok guys, I finally remembered to bring my inside mics home from work.(I actually have a pretty good memory, it's just a little short). At the muzzle this old girl measures .745. So, what do you think, .715 RB. with .15 patch?

 

[paulvallandigham]

No, I think with that difference, you need to consider either using the .730 RB with a .010 to .015" patch, or use the smaller .715 ball with heavy denim, or canvas patching. You want material that will be about .025 to .030" Thick, I should think.

Considering the size of the ball, ( .745") and its weight, if its cast from pure lead, its going to upset and fill up the barrel well even at low velocities, and you should have no problem getting good accuracy from that .715" diameter ball and heavy patchs. The lowest thickness I think might work would be .020 patching. You have .030" difference in size between the bore diameter(.715") and the ball diameter. Normally you want a ball that is about .020" undersized. Because this is a smoothbore, and not a rifle, you can't use as thick a patch as you can in a rifle, because there are no grooves where the patching material can be squeezed to allow clearance.

Most cotton patching can be compressed about .005" between the ball and the bore. So, with a .020 Patch, and a .715 ball, the ball can be compressed enough that the Patch and ball combination fills .740" of the bore, and not the whole .745". That .005" should fill in quickly when the ball expands on being fired, however. A patch that is .025 to .030" thick, will be a tight fit, but tight fitting patches tend to give the best accuracy with smoothbores.

Since ever gun is different, along with the climate where you are shooting, we can give you these recommendations that will get you in the ballpark of the best combinations of components to use in the gun: however, you have to do the final testing and work yourself. When you do find a load combination that gives you your best accuracy, please come back here and tell us what you found. The FEb. 2008 issue of Muzzle Blasts has a great article testing the effects of different lubes on group sizes. It would be a good read for you as you try various kinds of lubricants in this gun to see what will give you the best accuracy with each different patch thickness.

 

[mike alexandre]

"No, I think with that difference, you need to consider either using the .730 RB with a .010 to .015" patch,"
Exactly what Paul says - dont forget the lube on the patch and op wad

 

[whiskeyjoe]

Many thanks for that very usefull info.I'm afraid I won't be able until spring thaw to get up to my 'farm' to do some experimenting. Reason I'm asking is that I've always wanted to take a crack at a deer with this Brute with a reasonable chance of actually hitting it.( Reasonably, within what about 50 yards max)? I would think that any critter getting slammed with a hunk of lead of that size, they're not likely to pick themselves up, dust themselves off and waltz on over to discuss the situation with me. What do you think?

 

[torn moc]

Your Bess will do a nice job on a deer....they usually drop where they stand...
Aim small....miss small....pick your shot.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Set your limitations on the range you will take a shot, and where you will pass on a shot if the distance exceeds your range. I think a good load in a bess will be accurate enough to hit a deer out to 75 yards, but then I would reduce that yardage personally at least 10% to account for poor lighting conditions, " Buck Fever" and difficulty in getting my POA on that portion of the deer that I have practiced shooting at, because of obstructions. If you can hit a target within 3 inches of your POA shooting off-hand, You are likely to collect meat.

One year, I practiced and practiced with a new barrel and got good enough to put balls into my target off-hand at 50 yds to withing an inch of POA. I knew I was hunting woods with some open fields of winter wheat next to the woods, but I expected the deer to be in the woods. On opening Day, just at first light, a large button buck walked up to within 6 feet of me from behind me. When I slowly turned and looked at him from inside the branches of a small tree I was standing next to, I saw no evidence of button on its head, and though I was looking at a good 1 1/2 year old doe. So, when she moved, I shot her at about 12 feet. I was one surprised hunter when we got around to field dressing the deer and I lifted the back legs only to see no family jewels there! The buck weighed 85 lbs. field dressed, and was very good eating. However, If I had seen the buttons, I would not have shot him, preferring to let a yearling that big grow up and make a much better trophy in future years. All I could think about was all the ammo I had expended training to take that shot, when I could have fired the gun from my hip and killed the deer at the distance I had for the shot!

 

[ian45662]

sorry wront thread

 

[Britsmoothy]

Happy B day Paul, spring baby huh :wink:

 

[JackAubrey]

i have a Pedersoli Bess aswell.I can poke a patched .735 downbore but on the first shot only,unless I swab.I can dryball the .735's but I'm not inclined to do so due to safety concerns.A patched .715 w/ pillow ticking does nicely over 80 grains 2f Goex.With shoe I use oxyoke wonder wads and circlefly components and load volume for volume.Best regards,J.A.