Just one well-placed shot

[Frosty861]

Curt Gowdy, Ted Williams and Narragansett Beer.....OK, I'm Old!

Wait, as I just said to my friend Tom, we are not old, we've just developed patina.

I feel better.

What Hawken are you building?

 

[doubleset]

I couldn't agree more. All the modern stuff does is allow poor marksman to hit.

Well, it may also allow good marksmen to remain warm and dry so they can hunt longer and make better shots. I seem to remember a pair of rawhide-laced leather hunting boots that came up almost to my knees, in wet snow. They were really well-made, quality boots (I don't know how my parents could afford them). Quite beautiful. Waterproof? No way. I remember wet wool clothes, gloves, and mittens in sub-zero temperatures. I remember camping overnight under a canvas pup tent in 10 below zero, and without a down or polyester fiber-fill bag to keep me warm.

Did all of that make me a better "outdoorsman"? Maybe. But thanks just the same. I'll take a pile of the modern stuff to go out in similar conditions if given the choice. You won't? Then you still have the opportunity to avoid it. Have a real good time.

 

[appalichian hunter]

You had a canvas pup tent, now that was high class.

 

[doubleset]

It was WWII surplus, owned by the Scout Troop. Single diamond. No front. Got real good with reflector pit fires.

 

[Walaw717]

Curt Gowdy, Ted Williams and Narragansett Beer.....OK, I'm Old!

Wait, as I just said to my friend Tom, we are not old, we've just developed patina.

I feel better.

What Hawken are you building?

Hawken Bridger,

 

[Walaw717]

Well, it may also allow good marksmen to remain warm and dry so they can hunt longer and make better shots. I seem to remember a pair of rawhide-laced leather hunting boots that came up almost to my knees, in wet snow. They were really well-made, quality boots (I don't know how my parents could afford them). Quite beautiful. Waterproof? No way. I remember wet wool clothes, gloves, and mittens in sub-zero temperatures. I remember camping overnight under a canvas pup tent in 10 below zero, and without a down or polyester fiber-fill bag to keep me warm.

Did all of that make me a better "outdoorsman"? Maybe. But thanks just the same. I'll take a pile of the modern stuff to go out in similar conditions if given the choice. You won't? Then you still have the opportunity to avoid it. Have a real good time.

Somewhere you missed a point I think. It amazes me that humans survived thousand of years without gortex. High boots? Did anyone teach you about mink oil? I too had high leather boots and remember sitting in the kitchen sealing them to keep feet dry. Many young people are now going back to natural fibers and fur which they are learning if properly prepared work better.

 

[Frosty861]

Hawken Bridger,

Nice. Enjoy.

 

[JackP]

I reflect a great deal about a childhood and youth of hunting in the woods of the Appalachian Plateau and the Blue Ridge with my father and grandfather back in the 1950s and ’60s. We all hunted with simple guns, and my grandfather always carried his single-shot rifle and shotgun. He rarely missed and learned to shoot in the 1910s and ’20s.

Of course, we did not use muzzleloaders, so reloading was faster and simpler.

And hunting clothes were simple as well. Maybe a canvas over-suit. But usually just a shooting jacket and casual trousers, no camo and only later orange vests.

I also think about Sunday’s spent watching The American Sportsman with Curt Gowdy and the charm and sophistication he and his guests displayed. I have attempted to watch newer hunting and fishing programs and generally find myself turned off by the lack of sophistication and the mossy oak gimmick-filled hunting conversations and quasi redneck delivery. Gowdy and crew made the shows about the hunt or the fishing, the new shows are about the host and his gimmicks. The old American Sportsman had a feel like a movie we all love to love, Jeremiah Johnson, some talk but more about visuals and telling a story through actions and a soft narration about the land and the “game.”

Thinking about and reading about frontier hunters and muzzleloaders has taken me even more into the thought that the past hunters were much more proficient than today – no mossy oak, no commercial gimmicks, no semi-auto with mags bristling with high-powered ammo.

View attachment 119229

(frontier mossy oak??? hmmmm)

Just one well-placed shot as if your life depended on it. And it did. That is how my grandfather learned to hunt.

I am looking forward to not only building this Hawken gun when it arrives but working on that one-shot mentality my grandfather had.

I do not want to start an argument, simply sharing a thought like one might among a group at a local restaurant over coffee.

Will Law

Your words bring back a lot of childhood memories. We are propably close to the same age, my stories like yours come from a little farther east to the foot hills of the Blue Ridge mountains.
I remember those TV shows.
The new westerns where a gang ride into town all burning up in brand new clean Trench coats trying to look pretty and tough at the same time is another turn off (where is Festus when you need him?)

One of my memories and lesson from my father which I passed to my 3 sons and now to 3 grandsons, is when my dad and I were hunting when the ground was frozen. I was carrying my 20 ga. stevens single barrel shotgun under my arm with my hands in my pockets to keep them warm on hilly ground. My dad looked back at me while we were walking and said "you better keep your hands out of your pockets" I didn't ask why but did'nt listen. A little while later my feet slipped and I hit the hard frozen ground hard. He looked back at me and said "now you know why".

Jack

 

[LANEY REECE]

Also, beware the man with only one gun!

AND A M/loader at that!

 

[Walaw717]

Your words bring back a lot of childhood memories. We are probably close to the same age, my stories like yours come from a little farther east to the foothills of the Blue Ridge mountains.
I remember those TV shows.
The new westerns where a gang ride into town all burning up in brand new clean Trench coats trying to look pretty and tough at the same time is another turn-off (where is Festus when you need him?)

One of my memories and lesson from my father which I passed to my 3 sons and now to 3 grandsons, is when my dad and I were hunting when the ground was frozen. I was carrying my 20 ga. stevens single barrel shotgun under my arm with my hands in my pockets to keep them warm on hilly ground. My dad looked back at me while we were walking and said "you better keep your hands out of your pockets" I didn't ask why but did'nt listen. A little while later my feet slipped and I hit the hard frozen ground hard. He looked back at me and said "now you know why".

Jack

Not too further east. MY Father's home was Bluefield area and my uncles farmed in Wytheville. I alternated between there and a small town in southern Ohio. The family owned a mountain outside of Bluefield and lived on it. I did that once too. later cut the tip off the trigger finger of my gloves. Made my mom mad but managed to keep my hands warm.

 

[Penske]

I was always left with my grandfather during deer season. Leave the kid with gramps. He would give me 1 shotgun shell and say make it count. I would say but what if I need a second shot and he would say make sure you don't. I still hunt with my muzzle loader or ruger number 1 to this day. Learned to hunt with both my dad and grandad. Both gone now, but always near to my heart when I need them.
Working on my grandson now. Getting him into turkey hunting first, then we will move on to larger game.
I tell him that wisdom when given is free and experience when had is painful. You make the choice.

 

[doubleset]

Somewhere you missed a point I think.

Maybe, but I thought it was pretty clearly stated -- that ALL that modern materials, equipment, and methods do is to allow inferior people to succeed ("allow poor marksman to hit"). And that just can't be taken seriously.

It amazes me that humans survived thousand of years without gortex.

Well, a lot of them didn't survive -- and certainly didn't survive to anywhere near what either your age or mine is. The average life span in the Americas from the late 1770s through the 1860s was about 35 years. Worldwide, it was a bit below 30. It's not clear to me that that made those humans either superior or inferior to us, or better or worse marksmen. We all survive a lot better now and in greater comfort and health, and have a lot more fun for a lot longer. So I guess I don't get that point either.

High boots? Did anyone teach you about mink oil? I too had high leather boots and remember sitting in the kitchen sealing them to keep feet dry.

Seriously? Everybody used sealants of all sorts. They never made boots waterproof for more than a few minutes -- at least in the environments I was in. It works a lot better in some environments than others. You lived a lot further south than I did. I've still got some mink oil in my box of leather treatments. Also lanolin and neatsfoot oil. But I don't rub lanolin in my clothes like the Romans did for waterproofing. Oddly enough, clothes never seemed to make me a better or worse marksman. I think it was all the hours of practice coupled with the quality of my firearms.

Many young people are now going back to natural fibers and fur which they are learning if properly prepared work better.

Maybe you know different young people than I do, but this certainly isn't true of "many" young people. It's hard to get decent natural fiber clothing now. You can hardly buy fur at all, and (for a variety of fairly stupid reasons) many people -- especially the young ones -- flee from fur and leather) It's practically impossible to get 100% cotton denim or duck work pants any longer. Virtually everything is a blend. There are reasons for this. And I try not to distort reality by conflating nostalgia with function.

But more to the point, putting a piece of fur on your head or back really won't make you a better marksman -- at least in my own personal experience. It just never worked that way for me. But maybe your experience has been different.

 

[Planefixr]

Love those old showed and the men who were in them. Watch some on UTube! Fred Bear and the like! Welcome brother!

 

[Walaw717]

The initial post was about conspicuous consumerism.that was the only point I was making, that and a lack of class of modern hunting shows.

I think you are arguing simply because you have some odd need to be right or to show how smart you think you are. Good grief. There is always one who argues just to argue.

Wear you gortex , I never spoke out against gortex. You have already made my point about lack of charm and sophistication in some modern hunters.

 

[Walaw717]

Love those old showed and the men who were in them. Watch some on UTube! Fred Bear and the like! Welcome brother!

Thanks look forward to some good conversation.

 

[Red Owl]

I completely agree. All the modern gadgets has brought about an angst to hunting. This one guy I know, leased land, several feeders, cameras to see what and when the feeders are approached by game, charcoal scent free suits, tree stands, etc. etc. etc.
This guy cannot understand how I can enjoy just going out to public land and bushwhacking way far into areas not trampled upon and not get as many animals as he does. To me, completely difference between manufactured hunting and wilderness hunting.

 

[Walaw717]

I just put ignore on someone because I have no intentions of getting into foolish conversations with anyone who hijacks any conversation, mine or yours. I should have never responded but now I know there is someone specific out there not to waste my time on.

When ****** or frustrated I can get as snarky as the next person but after 30 years of working as a psychotherapist I can recognize when someone is simply hijacking a conversation for their own gratification and are basically showing off or arguing to just win points.

I do want to thank the 99.9 percent of you who have been kind, pleasant and classy in your comments.

Like I said I am ignoring one person because they not only missed the point I initially made but attempted to derail and hijack the thread. I won't tolerate that kind of foolishness at this time in my life.


Carryon but stay relevant to the overall conversation.

Nuff said.

 

[doubleset]

The initial post was about conspicuous consumerism.that was the only point I was making, that and a lack of class of modern hunting shows.

I think you are arguing simply because you have some odd need to be right or to show how smart you think you are. Good grief. There is always one who argues just to argue.

Wear you gortex , I never spoke out against gortex. You have already made my point about lack of charm and sophistication in some modern hunters.

I'm sincerely sorry that I hurt your feelings. But the original remark seemed to be a totally unwarranted and unrealistic direct slap at people who want to wear modern sporting clothing or use modern equipment. Your own followup "Did anyone teach you about mink oil?" appeared to want to enforce that. I completely missed any point about consumerism. Perhaps I simply misinterpreted the intentions.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

Why can't everybody just hunt the way they want to & leave others alone? Why does EVERYTHING have to turn into an argument? Lots of old codgers here just can't accept anything that isn't "old school" & let their bias turn them against their fellow muzzle loader hunters for no reason I can discern. What is so terrible about using various ways to hunt? Isn't the hunting method determined by the conditions, terrain, critter habits, access, available time, physical limitations, etc, etc, more so than how someone else thinks you should be doing it? Lighten up guys! We are all in this together, aren't we?

 

[Walaw717]

Well you just kept an argument going. Let it go. I know I was talking about something else.