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Is this Hawken "right"?

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George

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Those of you in the know about the Hawken plains rifle, please tell me what you think of this one. Insults are acceptable. I built it from a kit in the early 1980s, from a popular company at that time, Ozark Mountain Arms. It has a Green Mountain barrel 1" x 34", .54 caliber, twist 1:70". The lock is by Ron Long and the double set triggers by L&R Lock Co. Weight is 9 1/2 lb. There's a link to an album of more detailed photos after these two.

HawkenC.jpg


HawkenB.jpg

http://s881.photobucket.com/albums/ac20/Spence_2010/Hawken/?albumview=slideshow

Spence
 
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Sure looks right to me, but I'm not a judge at a juried event. Speaking from the shooting side of the plate, I'm betting it does real well.

The only thing I question is based on my own proportions rather than any knowledge of Hawken authenticity measures. The front of the comb might be pushed a little far forward for my big hands. One trip to my shoulder would answer that.
 
Pretty close, especially for a 1970's era copy of a Sam Hawken later period rifle.

some minor downsides:
1) The front sight is on backwards, it should taper forward.
2) While it was common to use straight barrels on Hawken repros back in the 1970's, only about 5-10% of the existing originals (a few straight and a few swamped), used anything but tapered barrels.
3) Overall the stock is a bit thick and the lockplate surround is a bit too big - both fairly common "mistakes" on repros.
4) A real nitpick, but all known Hawkens have a 1:48" twist. There are IIRC two (maybe just one?) rifleing machines from the original shop and they are 1:48" twist, which was also the most common twist on other American rifled originals, both before and after. But again slower twists were and still are common on many if not most repros.
5) The buttplate edges are a bit too thick/squarish - they should be thinned and a bit rounded over.
6) It's browned - another common "mistake":
per Don Stith who has handled more originals than most, the finish should be as follows:
The few Hawkens in good enough condition to see original barrel finish are blued. (on halfstocks)The barrel, rib and thimbles were blue. (modern)Caustic blue would not be appropriate however.
The breech and tang were cased as well as the lock, butt plate, trigger guard, trigger bar, entry thimble, and nose cap. Not the highly colored case of modern firearms but a mottled grey case that some of the early makers called forge casing. The blue is fairly dark and may be slow rust blue rather than charcoal (NOTE: makes sense since rust blue would have been the more common method for the 1820-1860 period during which the Hawken shop was in business). If doing the rust blue, don't overpolish or you get too bright a color. It is not the deep translucent blue seen on European guns. I usually just do a satin brown followed by boiling in water to duplicate the color (ie slow rust bluing)
 
I can't say if it is exactly HC but I'd say it is awfully close. In any event, it is one beautiful rifle and I wish it was mine.
 
Doesn't matter to me. I would love to own such a gorgeous looking rifle. Good job on the build. :thumbsup: How does it shoot?
 
I can not tell from the photo's. If you ship it to me for closer examination and about twenty years of testing I could answer the question! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
 
Don't listen to any of these guys and don't burden them with that piece of trash. Save your reputation and let me take that pile of garbage off your hands. Maybe I can get it looking decent enough to make a cheap lamp stand from it. :rotf: :rotf:
 
LaBonte said:
some minor downsides:
Thanks for the info. I'm surprised you didn't mention the nose cap. Were they not poured on a lot of originals?

Spence
 
The New Guy said:
How does it shoot?
OK, now the serious part. :grin: It's an accurate gun, as I guess most Green Mountain barrels are.

I settled on 110 gr. 3F Goex in my first load development and have never tried much else. All my rifles have slow twist and deep rifling. I get my best accuracy with tighter balls, so my general rule in choosing ball and patch is a ball .005" smaller than bore size. That worked well for this one. I shoot a .535' ball, .015" patch for my first shot while hunting, and drop to a .530" ball if I need a second shot. I haven't shot this rifle for 15 years, and back then I was using Wonderlube with good results. I have this rifle sighted for 100 yards and did a fair amount of shooting at up to 150 yards in preparation for hunting mule deer in the west. It shoots 9" low at 150 yards, so sighting on the line of the back should drop the ball into mid-chest. That's still theoretical, because I've never had to shoot a deer further than 80 yards with it.

Spence
 
In my humble opinion.....Any man who has years of experience under his belt. Wears a beard to be proud of. Can shoot any good looking rifle that he wants to.
Keep up the good work.
From one senior to another.
Vearl
 
i like it, i love to see a handcrafted ML's with honest wear. very nice. :grin:
 
Dang nice job. I get a lot of amusement on what different people judge what is "correct". I would venture to GUESS the Hawken shop had a number of different "specialists" also a number of different apprentices or not so experienced craftsmen, through out thier tenure.. Lock tuners that filled in for the underib mounter that was sick for a week.etc. etc. etc. Also when a coustomer paid that much for a rifle he ordered, he got pretty much what he ordered.You got just what you ordered. Doer proud.
 
Some were poured. Yours looks correct. What is that white spot on the muzzle of your rifle in the deer picture?
 
George said:
LaBonte said:
some minor downsides:
Thanks for the info. I'm surprised you didn't mention the nose cap. Were they not poured on a lot of originals?

Spence

With all due respect to Herb, while there are a few (VERY few) original Hawken halfstock mountain rifles (the cheaper "local" guns made st the dhop are a somewhat different story) with poured nose caps, according to Don Stith and Jerry Gnemi (another very knowledgable student of the genre with a large collection of original Hawkens) all are later replacements of original iron nosecaps i.e the one in Baird's book in the chapter following the Modena/Medina rifle is a poorly done replacement.
Otherwise yours looks fine - it's very similar to the one on the well known Carson Hawken, which overall this looks to be a close rendition of.
 
I am no authority at all, but learn from others and photos. Some in Gordon's book look poured, even Medina's. All the Hawken Sporting Rifles look poured.
 
Herb said:
What is that white spot on the muzzle of your rifle in the deer picture?
It was just a piece of masking tape over the muzzle to keep debris out.

Spence
 
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