Irresistible Bess

[BadDaditood]

A nice couple showed up at our range yesterday wanting to sell some old MLs of his dear departed dad.
There was no way I was gonna let a NiB unfired Pedersoli Short Land Pattern get away. Only eight hunnys later I’ll need (yet another!) round ball mold.
Any recommendations on ball size? My “very-near” caliper maxes out at .740” A bud is loaning me a .735” mold Sunday.
I assume I’ll patch them but what say you smoothie shooters?
Meanwhile I have a few loose RBs from .662” to .678” to try with thick patching.
I normally build my own but I couldn’t pass this up even though I still want a Charleyville
Thanks guys!

 

[pacanis]

I use Minie balls in mine. I do the whole paper cartridge thing

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Any recommendations on ball size? My “very-near” caliper maxes out at .740” A bud is loaning me a .735” mold Sunday.
I assume I’ll patch them but what say you smoothie shooters?
Meanwhile I have a few loose RBs from .662” to .678” to try with thick patching.
I normally build my own but I couldn’t pass this up even though I still want a Charleyville
Thanks guys!

The .735 will do very well, make sure the sprue is UP when loading. Do not patch, but do put a wad between the ball and powder, and a crumpled piece of paper or ball of tow over the top of the ball, until you get fiber wads.

You can try patched smaller ball, but as it's not a rifle the patch never folds the same way twice, which actually contributes to inaccuracy.
It's much better to develop a paper cartridge that snugs up the ball, so it just fits down the bore, to act as a sort of paper "cup" for the ball. Also works for shot.

LD

 

[Loyalist Dave]

OH FORGIVE ME...,
I forgot to mention a "hack" with the Bess. You get two pairs of brass angle braces, one pair 3/4 inch, and one pair 1" Then you use the tang bolt, and hold one in place by putting the tang bolt through a hole in the brace, thus creating a rear "ghost ring" sight. This may be easily cut and/or filed into a temporary rear sight, OR used as-is if that works for you. They are usually the same width as that of the tang, so you can align them. Windage adjusting means you need to cut the brace down..., then put a mark with a permanent marker on the back of the bracket. Line up that mark using your eyeball, with the Bess bayonet lug, and see after shooting if you need to move the temporary mark left or right. Make a new mark and try again. When you've got a mark that's satisfactory, take a hack saw and gently make a groove to make that adjustment permanent on the sight. You buy both sizes as you may need the higher version depending on what load you use and how the Bess, which is NOT ergonomic, fits your shoulder.

GOD SAVE THE KING!


LD

 

[pacanis]

Aw... we don't need no stinking sights...
LOL

That's half the fun of shooting my smoothies.
Plus I don't have to worry about not getting a sight picture and a blurry rear notch

But that is a good hack.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Aw... we don't need no stinking sights...
LOL

That's half the fun of shooting my smoothies.
Plus I don't have to worry about not getting a sight picture and a blurry rear notch

But that is a good hack.

I appreciate it and yep it's fun to get the musket to work without the hack, BUT..., you can get a good load WITH the hack, know it's a rather accurate load, then practice without that rear sight... and know it's you and not the musket that's missing, eh?

LD

 

[BadDaditood]

The .735 will do very well, make sure the sprue is UP when loading. Do not patch, but do put a wad between the ball and powder, and a crumpled piece of paper or ball of tow over the top of the ball, until you get fiber wads.

You can try patched smaller ball, but as it's not a rifle the patch never folds the same way twice, which actually contributes to inaccuracy.
It's much better to develop a paper cartridge that snugs up the ball, so it just fits down the bore, to act as a sort of paper "cup" for the ball. Also works for shot.

LD

Thank you sir! I rifled through my scattergun box and found 12 ga 1/8” felt wads along with 1/8” Nitro cards and Overshot cards.
Do you recommend feltwads (wax lubed I assume) over powder as well as over the ball or Nitro card over powder and feltwad over .735” ball ?
It’ll be fun mixing and matching until I get a .735” mold- then I’m sure I’ll go the paper cartridge route, like you smart guys :-D

 

[Britsmoothy]

Made in 1986.

 

[BadDaditood]

I appreciate it and yep it's fun to get the musket to work without the hack, BUT..., you can get a good load WITH the hack, know it's a rather accurate load, then practice without that rear sight... and know it's you and not the musket that's missing, eh?

LD

AHHHHH Most Excellent advice there!
I enjoyed finding the right anchor point on a Doglock- a Lot like archery. Got surprisingly good groups that morning with a .662” patched ball in a .69” Doglock. After lunch the Bess fell into my lap…. She be dancing soon!!

 

[1971fx]

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Thank you sir! I rifled through my scattergun box and found 12 ga 1/8” felt wads along with 1/8” Nitro cards and Overshot cards.
Do you recommend feltwads (wax lubed I assume) over powder as well as over the ball or Nitro card over powder and feltwad over .735” ball ?
It’ll be fun mixing and matching until I get a .735” mold- then I’m sure I’ll go the paper cartridge route, like you smart guys :-D

This is what it will look like in 200 years

 

[Jay Templin]

Any recommendations on ball size? My “very-near” caliper maxes out at .740” A bud is loaning me a .735” mold Sunday.
I assume I’ll patch them but what say you smoothie shooters?
Meanwhile I have a few loose RBs from .662” to .678” to try with thick patching.
I normally build my own but I couldn’t pass this up even though I still want a Charleyville
Thanks guys!

I generally shoot .735s in my Pedersoli Bess and carbine. Standard load back in the day was a .69 ball in a paper cartridge, and I’ve always been satisfied with that load out to 60 or so yards. I wouldn’t hesitate to use a .69 cartridge with 90g of FFg for deer. In fact I’ve taken that load afield any number of times; the issue is always finding a deer who will volunteer for the experiment!
Jay

 

[Rifleman1776]

Those Ped smoothie bores can, and often do, vary in size. I have had two Ped made smoothies that supposedly were both 12 ga. One was really a 14 ga, the other 11 ga. Try a couple sizes before investing in a mold.

 

[Artificer]

A nice couple showed up at our range yesterday wanting to sell some old MLs of his dear departed dad.
There was no way I was gonna let a NiB unfired Pedersoli Short Land Pattern get away. Only eight hunnys later I’ll need (yet another!) round ball mold.
Any recommendations on ball size? My “very-near” caliper maxes out at .740” A bud is loaning me a .735” mold Sunday.
I assume I’ll patch them but what say you smoothie shooters?
Meanwhile I have a few loose RBs from .662” to .678” to try with thick patching.
I normally build my own but I couldn’t pass this up even though I still want a Charleyville
Thanks guys!

First of all, congratulations on your purchase.

The actual bore size of your musket should run around .752" to .754" and I most strongly encourage you to have it checked with calipers that read to .001".

When these questions come up, it is often pointed out that the original ball size used in paper cartridges was .69 cal. and way too many folks think that translates to .690", which was only sometimes factual back in the day. They did not think or work in .001" (a thousandth of an inch) increments and as a matter of fact, they often didn't hold to .01" (a tenth of an inch) standard.

The original bore size of the King's Muskets or Brown Bess was not .75 cal. as is often thought today. It was officially ".76 cal," but the acceptance range verified from original muskets was .760" to .780" or .76 cal. to .78 cal. (Well used original muskets will often run up to .800" at the muzzle due to muzzle wear from the Iron/Steel Rammers.)

The original ball size was listed as ".69 cal," as mentioned earlier. However, years ago T.M. Hamilton measured a wide range of original, unfired/excavated British Musket balls found all over North American British Military Sites and in his book "Colonial Frontier Guns" reported that .69 cal or .690" was the LOW range of the actual size of the original balls. When Hamilton actually measured and separated his findings by actual size, the .710" or .71 cal balls were the most common.

Finally the "cartridge paper" British Ordnance carefully purchased and issued to make paper cartridges was "hand laid" linen paper, which meant the thickness was not nearly as uniform as even linen paper is rolled out today. It was probably thicker paper than what we might think or use today to make cartridges.

The reason I went through these explanations is to explain why one really must measure the bore size of the modern repro musket to come up with the most accurate load.

The .735" ball is the largest easily available mold size, though one can order larger custom molds for larger diameter balls. I had VERY good results in my Pedersoli Bess with this size, so I never bothered with getting a slightly larger custom mold.

If your bore measures in the common diameter of .752" to .754", then the size of cards and wads you will need is the 11ga. as shown in this list from Track.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/170/1
Gus

 

[BadDaditood]

This is what it will look like in 200 years

That’s a beauty!! Complete with cracked “shoe” on the “hammer”

 

[BadDaditood]

First of all, congratulations on your purchase.

The actual bore size of your musket should run around .752" to .754" and I most strongly encourage you to have it checked with calipers that read to .001".

When these questions come up, it is often pointed out that the original ball size used in paper cartridges was .69 cal. and way too many folks think that translates to .690", which was only sometimes factual back in the day. They did not think or work in .001" (a thousandth of an inch) increments and as a matter of fact, they often didn't hold to .01" (a tenth of an inch) standard.

The original bore size of the King's Muskets or Brown Bess was not .75 cal. as is often thought today. It was officially ".76 cal," but the acceptance range verified from original muskets was .760" to .780" or .76 cal. to .78 cal. (Well used original muskets will often run up to .800" at the muzzle due to muzzle wear from the Iron/Steel Rammers.)

The original ball size was listed as ".69 cal," as mentioned earlier. However, years ago T.M. Hamilton measured a wide range of original, unfired/excavated British Musket balls found all over North American British Military Sites and in his book "Colonial Frontier Guns" reported that .69 cal or .690" was the LOW range of the actual size of the original balls. When Hamilton actually measured and separated his findings by actual size, the .710" or .71 cal balls were the most common.

Finally the "cartridge paper" British Ordnance carefully purchased and issued to make paper cartridges was "hand laid" linen paper, which meant the thickness was not nearly as uniform as even linen paper is rolled out today. It was probably thicker paper than what we might think or use today to make cartridges.

The reason I went through these explanations is to explain why one really must measure the bore size of the modern repro musket to come up with the most accurate load.

The .735" ball is the largest easily available mold size, though one can order larger custom molds for larger diameter balls. I had VERY good results in my Pedersoli Bess with this size, so I never bothered with getting a slightly larger custom mold.

If your bore measures in the common diameter of .752" to .754", then the size of cards and wads you will need is the 11ga. as shown in this list from Track.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/170/1
Gus

Thank you for your comprehensive reply Sir! (And I know you meant .01” is hundredths)
I will start at the range tomorrow- two club members have inside micrometers and both will be in attendance.
I have these ball sizes on hand: .662, .672, .675, .678 along with 12 ga feltwads. Patched .662s grouped well in a .69 doglock.
(Track has handy baggies of 25 balls so you don’t have to buy 100 of the wrong size. They told me I could send back the unopened ones but I figgered shipping would cost more than they did… and here comes another caliber already!)
Should be able to have some fun even though I may have to patch the small balls.
I’m borrowing a .735 mold- I’ll see if he has any a little smaller, I have a hunch my “very-near” caliper reading of .740” is closer to the truth than .75 plus.
Thanks for all the helpful replies!!

 

[1971fx]

That’s a beauty!! Complete with cracked “shoe” on the “hammer”

The Frizzen has been resoled long ago with a steel that throws a great spark

 

[smoothshooter]

I use Minie balls in mine. I do the whole paper cartridge thing

Minnnie balls in a smoothbore?

 

[pacanis]

Minnnie balls in a smoothbore?

Might have caught me in a snafu there.
I've got some paper cartridges loaded for the Bess and some for the Colt Special 1861.
I might have confused the two. Good thing there's a big difference in caliber