ID original smoothie

[GreyWhiskers]

A friend bought this smoothbore at an antique sale. Not much written on it except LONDON on the lock. Bore measures about .520". Octagon to round barrel is about 36" long. No rear sight, just a bead up front. Any info is appreciated. GW

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[paulvallandigham]

Have you taken the gun down? Checked the inside of the lockplate? The inside of the Buttplate? The bottom of the barrel? The undersides of the trigger guard? London is probably only a reference to where the gunmaker was located. There should be proof marks if the gun is English. The Octagon to Round barrel suggests a gun made in the 1850s, rather than earlier. It could, of course have been built later. The metal inlays on the barrel suggest this was an expensive gun made for a wealthy man. You are more likely to find information on the gunmaker by looking under and inside the metal work, than expecting to find anything on the outside of the barrel, or action, particularly for a gun with this kind of ornate metal work.

 

[Many Klatch]

Well, just my thoughts but the back action locks are usually post American Civil War. The London on the lock can only mean that the lock came from London. The gun does have nice lines and the engraving is good, so it might be English or at least English inspired. My guess is it was built about 1870 to 1880. If the bore is good, shoot it. Antique guns need to be shot every once in a while so that they get cleaned and oiled properly.

Many Klatch

 

[benvenuto]

1840-1870, commercial gun for export. Unless there's a makers name somewhere on it, I would consider it fairly ordinary but from the pictures it looks like whoever bought it got honest value for money :thumbsup:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Late (1870's) low grade english export gun, although I wouldn't be surprised to find belgian proofs on the bottom of the barrel.
There is also a possibility it's an american stocked gun, the stock looks suspiciously like black walnut. :hmm:

 

[Twice boom]

Couple of things...
One , I don't believe you will find a makers name other than possibly the lock makers name on the inside of the lock plate..
You will though, find the proof marks. That in itself will assure you the country of origin.

I supect the gun is belgian made. The drop on the stock (English were much straighter) and the fact London is the only word on the Lock , to me is an indication that it was designed with the intent to deceive the buyer.

Having said that. I do think the gun is well made..

Also it should be noted that Leige Belgium produced alone more guns and parts for the trade than the entire world put together at that period. Many of those parts were used to make Englands finest..

 

[robinghewitt]

Has someone screwed the lock back on without easing the trigger forward? :shocked2:

Often you get trigger springs pulling the trigger back so it has no free play.

Not very clear in the pic but the barrel and tang engraving look a bit deep and folksy, like someone was learning how to do it and practiced on it, not in keeping with the lock.

The wrist has been extended back by cutting away at the comb which is much to abrupt.

I'd still shoot it though :grin:

 

[GreyWhiskers]

Thanks for the help so far. I pulled the barrel, lock and buttplate. Didn't find proof marks. What I did find under the barrel was roman numerals - XXVlll made with a chisel.

Also found six punch marks (dots)under the barrel, under the lock and also on the wedge pin.

The screw that the v-spring rests on is stripped out where it threads into the lock plate. That's why the trigger was back.I put it back together but don't think it will last long.

The inside of the barrel looks like a stove pipe. :cursing: Too bad cause I would love to shoot it. The underside of the lock plate has some blueing left.

The engraving on the lock doesn't seem to match the engraving on the barrel, butt-plate and trigger-gard.

The checkering on the stock looks a bit amateurish but not sure that the comb was altered.

One feature that I really like is the barrel goes from octagon to 16 sides and then round.

I do think the stock is black walnut but I'm no expert. I'll ask the owner who is a cabinet maker and pretty sharp on wood. He wants to hang it on the wall and it will sure look nice there. GW

 

[Mike Brooks]

OK, with that update I'm going with american made.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I agree with American Made. And it may be a much later gun. Now that I see a better picture of that stock, it could easily be an early 20th century gun. Those Back Action locks were being sold in hardware stores well into the 1940s. A lot of inexpensive single shot shotguns were built on them, and you also see some DB shotguns using them that date well into the 20th century. I was told many years ago that these kinds of locks were being exported to Africa and India where ML guns were still popular, and often needed new locks to replace those that wore out. I am not sure where they were made, but it certainly could have been Belgium, with the London marking on the lockplate a come-on to suggest it was made by the English Best Gun makers in that city. ( Without something to identify the origin, it could be London, Ontario, or andwhere else there is a " London" where someone could rent a Post Office Box.

 

[jdstrang]

GW:

I pm'd you the two-page detailed report on what I discovered about an almost identical piece I cleaned/preserved for a friend of my wife.

The short version is, I vote British-made for export, pre-Civil War. The one I worked on was British proofed, and appeared to have come from a manufactory in Barnsley, Yorkshire. The German silver and the punch pricks form the link, I think.

And of course, I could be as wrong as Hillary - but I don't think so... :haha:

 

[rickystl]

If the gun turns out not valuable, and you want to shoot it, you could probably have the barrel relined. Maybe Bob Hoyt?

 

[GreyWhiskers]

Thanks to all who chimed in on this. :hatsoff: GW