I don't like to use a ball starter.

[WVAED]

Seems that i got some very useful, practical information. Several have gotten acceptable to very good to excellent results with a looser combination. I am a big fan of easier loading and one less piece of equipment (short starter). I used to shoot an inline with saboted bullets and i had to almost break the ramrod to get them in the rifle. I only shoot roundball now in my flintlock and cap lock. I don't want to have to swab between every shot if i don't have to. Thanks for sharing your experience and what works for you.

 

[azmntman]

I Like the Dutch System now. Before I ordered it (Im into the BEST groups when I shoot) I used Hoppes Black Powder Solvent and Patch Lubricant, (NOT the regular Hoppes for smokeless). It cannot be beat at the range for being able to shoot all day w/o swabbing. You use a wetter than damp patch and it swabs the bore for you and the fouling now sits on top the powder and is shot out each time. Try it.

 

[azmntman]

Just had a thought....

I use a ball starter most the time myself. However I just realized that once ya start the ball and push it into the bore the 3-6 inches yer starter is designed for you now have a BARREL OBSTRUCTION :shocked2: I bet that many many bulged or ringed barrels belong to ball starter users who like to yak n load (or take a cell phone or a chatter box kid to the range). Start yer ball, get distracted, fire away and

 

[don hepler]

I have flintlock rifles, with round bottom rifling, and I have rifles with deep square groove rifling and my TC"S have shallow rifling. All, require different ball/patch combinations, in order to shoot well.

The flintlock with round bottom rifling shoots best with very tight patch, which requires a mallet to start the ball. The TC's do not require a ball starter. I have a custom 36 which will shoot very well with a fairly loose ball/patch combination.

I get this question, about patch thickness, all the time. The answer is different thickness, depending on the rifling and....what your accuracy expectations are. Could be a lot of other reasons, such as type of lube, amount of lube, crown of the barrel, condition of the rifling and etc.

On my custom flintlock, I load with a .022 patch, which is made of white duck cloth, but if I need a follow up shot, in a hunting situation, I use a pillow ticking cloth with strips, which is .018. There is some accuracy lose, with the thinner patch, but if I need a follow up shot, it's easier to load.

I don't believe there is a "One size fits all" answer.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Seems that i got some very useful, practical information. Several have gotten acceptable to very good to excellent results with a looser combination. I am a big fan of easier loading and one less piece of equipment (short starter). I used to shoot an inline with saboted bullets and i had to almost break the ramrod to get them in the rifle. I only shoot roundball now in my flintlock and cap lock. I don't want to have to swab between every shot if i don't have to. Thanks for sharing your experience and what works for you.

In this game we claim to be emulating the old ways. But, I believe :2 what we really do these days is quite different than back in the late 16th and early 17th centuries. We have better steels for our barrels. They may be more accurately bored and rifled. We have consistent quality powder. Our moulds are very accurate. We have consistent access to perzactly the type of cloth we want to use for patching. Same can be said for lubes. I believe, back in the day, ease of loading was a primary consideration. Fussing around with a short starter was not wise during a hunt or battle. That ball had to go down easily into a dirty bore and no chance to immediately replace a broken wiping stick (ramrod). As I often say, even though some are weary of of it: This is a do yer own thang game.

 

[MSW]

Hadden West puts it well ... each gun will tell you what works best if you listen. Having said that, i would be remiss were i not to mention Dutch Schoultz' method... here's a link - this is the best twenty bucks you'll spend in a good long time: http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/
I have coned several barrels (Mr. Schoultz, if i remember correctly, rails against this) but i have suffered no loss in accuracy that i can discern... but then again, i'm not so great a shot as you could tell ... if i had a Goodien barrel, i would hesitate to cone it. Joe Woods tools are very well made and are caliber specific. If you choose to go that route, follow the directions carefully, go slowly, and do not, under any circumstances, use a power tool of any kind for any reason.

good luck with your project!

 

[Adui]

Just had a thought....

I use a ball starter most the time myself. However I just realized that once ya start the ball and push it into the bore the 3-6 inches yer starter is designed for you now have a BARREL OBSTRUCTION :shocked2: I bet that many many bulged or ringed barrels belong to ball starter users who like to yak n load (or take a cell phone or a chatter box kid to the range). Start yer ball, get distracted, fire away and

I am a little embarrassed to admit I have made that mistake ONCE. I got VERY lucky in that my fairly mild (Then Pyrodex P) load did not damage my rifle.

I have since marked my ramrod, and if I am even the slightest bit unsure, I drop it back down and check for the mark. (Ive done this when I was sure just because I had been distracted and stopped loading to talk a few times)

 

[Gene L]

I can't see any great disadvantage to NOT using a ball starter unless you're under attack. Will someone explain to me the reluctance of taking an extra 20 seconds or more in the loading process? Other than a preference. I'm sure there are ways as some have explained here around it, but I'm going tight patch and a ball starter. I need all the help I can get accuracy-wise.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Gene I tend to agree. But, I do mostly rest shooting. It isn't like offhand, where a 4 inch group at 50 yds is better than average. I know shooters who can shoot 4 inch groups offhand at 100 yds with smoothbores. The gun itself has certain bench accuracy capabilities. Sights, position, shooter etc all take away from that accuracy A lousy offhand shooter will shoot a 12 inch group at 25 yards regardless of how accurate the barrel is. A good offhand shooter, will come close to the gun's capacity for accuracy, but the group will still be slightly larger. I can shoot well offhand, but it takes a hooked butt plate, a palm rest and good receiver sights. A hold over from intercollegiate competition. I am not a natural snap shooter like some. Oh, had days where I could do a 2 inch group at 50 yds, but the gun was capable of 1/4 of that if shot off a rest. Give me the hook butt, palm rest and peep sights and I could do a 5/8 inch group at 50 yds. Whether you use a starter is more about your type of shooting and the accuracy you expect. Never saw a serious bench shooter yet that did not use a starter. Never saw a serious bench shooter that used a coned muzzle.

To a degree, the type of rifling does make a difference. Most Round bottom rifling is a prime example a patched round ball, simply cannot fill the grooves without being mashed/swaged into shape to do so. Other wise blow-by screws up accuracy. That is because of the tight arc shape of the round groove. OTH, if the round grooves were of an arc larger than the bore (Like H&H and Harry Pope used on their barrels), the ball fit the rifling with very little deformation required and a loose combination could be used..

 

[crockett]

Broken wrists in a stock and broken toe plate areas- wonder if due to short starters?

 

[pa woods roamer]

I have an Uncle that will not use a Ball Starter for the simple reason that He does not want to end up with a bulged barrel. Loose enough to thumb start and push Home with the Ram Rod. And yes, He has won quite a bit of stuff through the Years !!

 

[Adui]

Broken wrists in a stock and broken toe plate areas- wonder if due to short starters?

I would venture to guess that's more a result of overzealous shooters trying to pound home a patch ball combo that is FAR too tight, or simply believing they need to seat it much harder than they do.

 

[Black Hand]

I can't see any great disadvantage to NOT using a ball starter unless you're under attack. Will someone explain to me the reluctance of taking an extra 20 seconds or more in the loading process? Other than a preference. I'm sure there are ways as some have explained here around it, but I'm going tight patch and a ball starter. I need all the help I can get accuracy-wise.

There is no reluctance - a starter just isn't necessary and I can't see carrying/using one if it doesn't serve a purpose...

 

[Gene L]

Well, a ball starter does serve a purpose. I see one as if not something I could absolutely do without in an emergency, something that makes loading with a tight patch a lot more easy.

 

[azmntman]

I use em all the time shooting but do not carry one while hunting.

 

[tenngun]

I find it easier to load with a short starter. In fact I am the man that invented them. When I bought my first ml I tried loading per instructions given by the gun shop that sold the gun, powder,ball and patch. After my first time in the field I built a small starter. About a year later I got to my first ml club. I thought for a moment the other shooters would be amazed to see my ”˜loading tool’. They were not amazed, everybody had one :haha:
The only time I don’t use them is with my fusils or when I’m giving an historic demonstration. While I think they are historic I can’t prove it and won’t argue about it in public or give a false impression.

 

[Elkeater]

I got started in this ML gig with T/C barrels and a ball starter. Now that I have an Ed Rahl barrel I'm eliminating the unnecessary motions and carrying one less tool.

Maybe starters are unnecessary in dedicated rb barrels. Depth of groves has something to do with it.

I wouldn't cone a muzzle.

 

[Black Hand]

Well, a ball starter does serve a purpose. I see one as if not something I could absolutely do without in an emergency, something that makes loading with a tight patch a lot more easy.

Perhaps to you. I have no need for a starter - my rammer does all the work...

 

[tenngun]

Funny that this would stir up two pages of responses. Since the name of the thread was ”˜I don’t like to use a short starter’ a person who said I don’t like to use a tow worm or I don’t like to use a capper it might not get as much response.
Although there are wrong ways to shoot a ML there is no one right way.

 

[Gene L]

Well, a ball starter does serve a purpose. I see one as if not something I could absolutely do without in an emergency, something that makes loading with a tight patch a lot more easy.

Perhaps to you. I have no need for a starter - my rammer does all the work...

What are the disadvantages of a ball starter?