Hi from the Netherlands

[Lefaucheux]

I greet you all from the Netherlands, Europe.
This forum was suggested to me by someone and I think it is a good one for me. Since 1989 I am a sport shooter. I am active in more than one disciplines.
Also I have great interest in pistols and revolvers with the accent on S&W revolvers. I have three, a 617, 686 and 696.

The last few years my interest in antique guns has grown. These are free to own here. Replica's not, they are licenced. I started collecting pinfire revolvers and restoring them but now I move to percussion and flintlock pistols.
I like to restore them. Something that keeps the hobby acceptable in costs and a gun I have punt so much effort in I have a much better 'relationship' with then a bought and ready one.
Currently I have one percussion pistol and two flintlock pistols. I have yet to shoot with one of them but have muzzle loading experience with a Uberti revolver. However that was more than 10 years ago when we (shooting club) could shoot outside.
The one pistol I have restored is this one. Because I do not unidentified it I started to look around to good forums and through 2 other forums I am now here.

I hope to indentifie the percussion pistol. (I took pictures of the unreadable name before restoring). Furhet I hope to find info about making flints to the right mesurements and find tips on restoring. And maybe I can give tips as well.

Jeroen

Before

After

 

[BillinOregon]

Jeroan: Welcome to the forum. That's a beautiful percussion pistol you have there, and it looks like a very large bore. Military?

 

[lonehorseman]

Welcome to the camp. Sorry, I know nothing of the origin of you pistol but that is one FINE refinish job! Sounds like you have the interest and skills to fit in well on the forums.

 

[Lefaucheux]

It's 16.2mm/.64 inch. Military I would not know. It had some engravings, that is most times not military I think.

 

[Lefaucheux]

Well, since this is moved I ask the question I wanted to post anyway.
This pistol I restored, or refurbished as someone told me to call it.
When I bought it: There was rust damage, the sights were worn, someone had coated it completely with lacquer, the piston was flat and looked like one piece with the barrel.
The fire channel (correct name?) from piston to barrel was closed with rust and dirt. I had to drill it open and after that closed it again with silver.
At first I tried to save the engravings but I did not like the look of the engravings with rust damage together. So I choose to go all the way.

I have tried to read the name on the lock plate but did not succeed. I took some pictures before I smoothed it out.
It is marked with Birmingham proof marks.

The question is, who can help me to the name of the maker?
Is there anyone recognising this pistol having or knowing the same?
Or recognise the name from the few readable letters?

What I can make of it:
First word:
J_ET The T can be an L and I am not sure about all letters.
Between the words looks like a high placed small C or maybe an O. There under two points next to each other.
Last word:
CRL_N__CK The third letter L can be a i. The N a k, the last K a X and there may have been some more letters.
I am sure about the CR.
On the inside of the lockplate there is a W stamped.

I would like to have the name engraved again so it's not nameless anymore.

After I was done

 

[colmoultrie]

You may not want to hear this, and it is your pistol, but I would hesitate before you "restore" any more pistols. Your pictures of "before" did not look that bad (at least on my iPod) and you have removed much of the artistry and history, along with the engraving and patina.

If you plan to shoot it, you were right to change out the nipple, as they are to an extent replaceable parts anyway. Other than fixing what is broken and removing active rust, I would urge you to conserve, rather than restore.

It is, however, your pistol, not mine; you have every right to do what you want.

 

[TFoley]

Your pistol is an English short cavalry or dragoon pistol from around the transition period from flint to percussion - ~1830-40, as it does not appear to have been converted. It is of high quality, and therefore stands as an officer's sidearm or saddle-holster arm. The engraving, therefore, is not unusual, as this would have had to have been a private purchase, rather than an issue weapon.

The captive ram-rod tells you that it was intended for use on horseback.

It is a Birmingham-made gun of some quality, but sadly the [to me] indecipherable lettering, not helped by your renovation, remains a mystery.

FYI, the use of the letter X in English [a real rarity, in fact] is usually limited to Roman numbers - VERY few proper surnames in English contain this letter, so a revision of their reading might be in order. No words in the Basic English vocabulary begin with X, but it occurs in words beginning with other letters [foX, fluX, eXecutive, eXecute, eXtinct]. As you can see, it is most often found in a word with an E before it. X is the third most rarely used letter in the English language.

It has lost considerable value from your undoubtedly skilled and careful efforts, although that may not matter to you. And of course, it is your gun, and you can do whatever your wish with it.

tac

 

[Lefaucheux]

Ah, yes. I was afraid this would happen.
Of course you are right. I took the restoration beyond a point of just cleaning and repairing. And I do understand that not everyone finds that OK. I know I am one of the few who does this and one of the fewer that takes the risk showing it.
In defence I can only say
1) It was done before, so I was looking against someone else his work. And it was not pleasing with wobbly barrel surfaces.
2) Guns of high quality I can not afford and guns looking like it was is not what I want.

Maybe I should not name it restoration but refurbish? Anyway I have much pleasure doing it.

I also restored an oldtimer Mercedes. In that world it's the way around, If you keep it smoking and rusty people say you need to restore it.

I have two more pistols, flintlocks, and those I will keep as they are since they have a pleasing looking age.

About my pistol, the maker could possible be a Charles Crickmay ? I have found one set of pistols signed with Crickmay and just little info on him. Pictures of the mentioned pistols at the end of this post.The mentioned X could be a Y after all.

My next project is this pistol, yet to receive.
I hope you agree with me that keeping this one in the state it is has not much use? I desperately wanted a double barrel flintlock but buying one is a eye pleasing condition is not in my possibility's.

***********************

http://www.cowanauctions.com/auctions/past-item.aspx?ItemId=87119

 

[TFoley]

Thank YOU for being patient with us and our criticism. We are not used to seeing what WE see as irreplaceable firearms subjected what we often consider to be over-enthusiastic 'refurbishment', but I DID say that you had gone a fine job, as did a few others in this thread.

Many of us here, too, understand that the cost of a perfect gun is way past our pay-scale, and are therefore happy to see somebody else who loves guns as obviously as you do prepared to take the 'slings and arrows' from the critics and make one better than it was when he bought it.

I've have only had one genuine antique gun in my life - and here in UK it was very unusual to see a real example of the Lancaster County gunmaker's art represented. It had not been restored in the slightest, but it HAD been much-loved by the previous ten or fifteen owners, and it was much-loved by me until the day it was stolen off our stand at a show-and-tell gun show.

Crickmay of Portsmouth is more than likely the maker of your pistol, having seen the way his name is laid out on the images you thoughtfully provided.

Anyhow, please carry on doing what you see fit, bringing your guns back to a semblance of their original appearance - I'll carry on looking.

Best

tac

 

[Lefaucheux]

And my thanks again, thanks for the understanding, a nice welcome to this forum!

For now I guess that Crickmay is 85% sure? Would be nice to see an (almost) the same pistol.

 

[vtbuck223]

Sorry...but I find your "restoration" to be very disturbing.

 

[rickystl]

Hello!! And welcome to the Forum. As you can see, restoring antique guns is a very controversial subject. I think the old saying goes: "As much as necessary, and as little as possible". If your original goal was to return this pistol to a shooting condition, you did an excellent job. It looks great. :thumbsup: It now has a new life. And, there is the extra nostalgia you receive shooting an original. On the other hand, too much restoration detracts from this nostalgia. It's often a tough call.
I have originals I shoot. Most with new barrel liners. I try to find ones that are better than wall hangers, but not so good (minor collector value)as to detract from the originality of the piece. It's often a tough call. The double barrel flint pistol (looks French) might be a good candadite for making into a shooter. Keeps us posted on your progress. Rick.

 

[Lefaucheux]

Yes, a controversial subject. I know that.

I will keep you posted on the double barrel!

 

[BillinOregon]

Lefaucheux, that double flinter with belt hook is a fascinating piece of hardware. Any markings on it, or idea of its history?

 

[Lefaucheux]

I have not yet got it home. When I have I will examine it and post about it. OK?