Fast twist T\C and a RB?

[JonnyReb3]

I know before i ask that my answer is GO SHOOT IT!, but before i can, i'd like to get ya'lls thoughts on a problem TC White Mt. carbine .50 i've got. Its a beautiful rifle with one major flaw, the 1:21 fast twist barrel it came with. I really like the rifle but never found any molded slug, factory conical or s***t it would shoot worth a darned till i got up into 400gr+/- projectiles, in which case i found reasonable accuracy using 80-90gr of T7 sub. powder. As its a hunting rifle i guess i can deal with sticking to Maxi's but a quotable phrase has popped up in this forum a few times " You can't overstabilize a roundball" and it got me to wondering, would that 1:21 twist barrel throw a roundball well? If so, i'm going to take advantage of it before the skinny little stock on the petite rifle gives way, those big conicals kick fairly hard and my shoulder doesn't care for it much either.

From what i'm reading, the TC's have shallow rifling and so i'm assuming higher velocities and accuracy won't go hand in hand with a fast twist, At some lower velocities the TC might work well with a roundball possibly? Anyone dealt with this and have any recommendations as to what Fps and corresponding powder charge i might start to find consistent shots using the rb at? In advance, i appreciate your replies. J

 

[stude 283]

I've got a wmc 50cal,but its the later 1in38 that shoots great with a rb and 70gr 3f. Years ago I tried to help a friend with an early 1in20 to no avail.No matter how light or heavy a charge it would not shoot a round ball.Maybe you could find a latter barrel on ebay. I believe the 1in20 was only the first two years of production.

 

[BrownBear]

Try tight patch/ball combos, and I think you'll be pleased. In my experience you won't be able to run as hot loads as you would in a slower twist while retaining good accuracy, but I bet you can get it up into the 70-80 grain charge range. That's plenty for deer hunting in my experience.

 

[JonnyReb3]

Stude your right, its an early serial number. I guess they figured out pretty quick that it was too much twist for most applications and slowed it down a bit. 1st time i shot it i finally had to go get another rifle to make sure it wasn't me, couldn't hit a thing with it.

Brown Bear i'm glad to hear theres some hope, i'll be giving this a try over the weekend and will surely post of success. It would be nice to be able to trust the little rifle to shoot where i'm pointing. Appreciate the replies fellas. J

 

[Col. Batguano]

fast twist barrels and RB's usually have a tendency for the ball / patch combination to have it skip the rifling, and not be engaged to impart the spin on the ball.

 

[BrownBear]

fast twist barrels and RB's usually have a tendency for the ball / patch combination to have it skip the rifling, and not be engaged to impart the spin on the ball.

Yeah, that's the point of the tight ball/patch combo. It works.

 

[crockett]

I have a 1/38 barrel that shoots PRB very well. The standard deal is too reduce powder charges and slow down the velocity to help the accuracy on a PRB. Works out okay for less expensive target shooting.

 

[JonnyReb3]

Ya'll got me excited about this working out.
In 87 or 88' my Mom bought me a brand new WMC at our local little gunshop. I was 15 or 16, she didn't want me to have a "real" gun, and i had loved ML's since i was old enough to read. so i got it and if i remember right, a bunch of sabotted pistol bullets. I couldn't hit a thing with it, and traded it off eventually. I always felt guilty about letting that gun go, and when i found muzzloading forums about a year ago, i bought my current WMC after placing a want add elsewhere and one of the members here responded, selling me an early numbered, once fired gun, the one that i have now. I shot a lot of loads through it, including quite a few non traditional projectiles. at normal velocities nothing works but those behemoth chunks of lead.
If i found i could shoot rb's accurately, even at small game velocities, i'd be thrilled. Will surely let ya'll know what i find. J

 

[nkbj]

Will double ball loading help prevent jumping the rifling?

 

[daniel collums]

my white mountain carbine is one of the early ones with the 1-20 twist, the thing will stack one shot on top of the other but its twisted for modern loads and that all it will group with i know because i've tried. I couldn't even get it to shoot a decent group with maxi balls,hunters or the 300 reels, it does the best with 200gr .451 and the black bullet holder and 90grs.it also likes the 44cal and the green wads. when you hit a deer in the chest its like a grenade going off inside of it. The best i could do with a prb was about a 6 to 8 in group using 70 grs of ffg. Its a nice light compact well made rifle but the fast twist ones aren't made for prb's. One thing to note is that i didn't try but will soon is to try a wad in between powder and conical, might make all the difference in the shooting world.

 

[gearheart]

The rate of twist is a factor designed to produce a certain RPM for gyroscopic stability to the projectile. long projectiles require higher RPM than short ones and a round ball is as short as it gets. Since the rate of twist is non adjustable we fiddle with the velocity to get the best RPM. Light loads should reduce the spin of a round ball to get acceptable stability. Problem is the trajectory will be more like a rainbow than a line.

 

[JonnyReb3]

Well if i can use it with prb's to plink with, and have it accurate enough to be fun, then i'm good to go, knowing that with a Hornady Great Plains 385gr and 90gr. of powder it'll shoot with acceptable accuracy. It was a gun you just didn't want to shoot EXCEPT in a hunting scenario because its just really to light a rifle for that kinda recoil imho. The use of light recoiling rb's would make the rifle worth grabbing not only for cans and paper, but for coyote and even smaller game. Understanding this gun better sure may prove to help turn it into a go-to muzzleloader rather than a dust collector. I thank everyone for their comments.

GoodCheer, i'm not familiar with doubleball loads but so long as its a safe practice, i'd sure try it as it makes sense it could shoot at least as accurately as some of the other projectiles i've tried in this gun. It could do no worse. Would be devastating on close range whitetail and i'm gonna research this some more. Appreciate the idea. J.