Enlightened two shooters about Flintlocks this morning

[roundball]

Had a great range session this morning with a .54cal rifle...perfect conditions of heavy dark overcast, no sun on the sights, temps & humidity both in the 50's...practiced off hand shooting a steel plate.

First one guy came over asking question, then another, explained that no, I wasn't using Pyrodex, requires real black powder, explained the differences, and that yes, real BP was still being made.

No, I didn't have to give the ATF my first born to get Goex, that I just order a case every now and then, that I can legally keep 50lbs in my residence, no special requirements, etc.

Explained and showed them a couple of complete firing / reloading cycles...(fortunately I was on my game this morning)...but they didn't have time to get into shooting it themselves as the concealed carry class they had come for was about to start.

Never-the-less, their level of awareness was raised a lot with a good show & tell seeing a Flintlock in action, instant ignition, accuracy, etc...a good feeling.

 

[walruskid1]

nice, always good to pass on info or remove misconceptions. who knows, may get a convert to bp.

 

[Legionair]

Glad everything worked out...

Maybe if'n you see them again... give them this site....

Good thing I wasn't there.... the more I talk, the more apt I am to screw up..... :redface:

Legion

 

[Wehrmacht]

In talking with the "unknowing" about flintlocks,hunting or otherwise,I always get this bit about pulling the trigger then clack then pffft then BOOM! I'm sure all of you have heard this numerous times,too.

It's almost with disbelief that they'll accept that IF the enternal parts of the lock are properly polished and functioning correctly,the flint properly knapped and set correctly and the vent clear,that there is NO noticable lag in pulling the trigger and having the charge explode!

Out of curiosity I wonder just how long in thousants of a second it would be from the time the flint touches the frizzen until the charge goes off assuming everything is in order.I don't remember ever seeing anything about this....does anyone know?

 

[ronrryan]

Every time I am shooting at the range here and a person stops and exhibits interest, I say "Want to take a shot?" Mostly they say "No-No-No!" as if scared of a bomb in their hand, but with a little "Try it--it's fun!" they often do try. I like nothing better than trying to make a convert--makes my day. Ron in Fla.

 

[Blivetmaker]

I have a short quick-time clip of my Mortimer going off. Each frame is 1/25 second. The movement of the cock and frizzen were too fast for the receptor of the camera. What you see is:
Frame: Unfired closed lock. No shoulder movement
Frame: Blurry hammer and frizzen with a minute orange dot where the pan is. No shoulder movement
Frame: Lock area engulfed in fireball.(really a lot of fire actually) Shoulder has moved due to recoil.
Frame: Fire is already spent and shoulder is moving due to recoil.

For this shot I'd say the ball was at least starting it's way down the barrel in around 1/25 of a second. that's about as long as it takes to say "BANG!" very fast.YMMV :thumbsup:

I should stay on topic though! German's going through a rather rapid decline in the number of active shooters. Kids over here have it drilled into them that shooting sports are "Bad". The lengthy bureaucracy involved with getting permits doesn't help. Anything we can do to enlighten, introduce, propagate, is well worth our time.
:nono: :nono: :shocked2: :nono: :grin:

 

[Bob J]

It's definitely enjoyable sharing this sport with interested people. The last two range trips I made were with the .36 Sells rifle, Shadowmaker. Both times a young man (each in their late teens) came up and watched as I was shooting, started asking a few questions, and then eagerly accepted when I asked if they'd like to shoot it. You can imagine the look on their face after firing a flintlock for the first time. Flintlocks definitely seem to make a lasting impression :winking:

 

[riverrat43]

I was at the range last week with my flinter. A local doctor was there trying to sight in his CF and wasn't having much luck, so I helped him out. When we got his rilfe sighted in, he came over to my bench to watch me shoot my longrifle. He said he'd never shot black powder before but thought it was interesting. After a few shots and a fantastic ( for me ) grouping at 100 yds, I asked if he wanted to try a few rounds. What followed was really funny.

I walked him thru the loading and got him settled in on the bags and told him to pull the rear trigger till he heard a click. Then I told him to reach up and touch the front trigger when he was ready to fire and had his sights aligned. He listened patiently, aligned his sights and set the rear trigger. He was talking to me about sight alignment and really was concentrating on it as he set the trigger. Still talking, he touched the front trigger and it went off. Scared the bejesus out of him. He said he wasn't expecting that! We looked in the spotting scope and he'd cut the 9 ring. He was amazed. Said he thought the trigger pull was better than on his custom CF. ( It is). Couldn't believe that flintlocks fired so fast and were so accurate.

He shot about 20 rounds and was really enjoying it. Shot a good group or two toward the end also. Now he wants to get together and discuss getting his own built. Made me feel good.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The only tests I have seen were published in Muzzle Blasts several years back, but they set the timer to start when the sear released the cock.

Unless you use time lapse photography to measure and " see " the charge ignite, you would have to use a pressure sensitive gauge to start your timer, attaching the sensors to the backside of the frizzen, so that it would record the moment of impact of the flint on the face of the frizzen. Then, a second sensor would have to be set up to react to the sound of the shot, to determine how fast it takes for the shot to go off from the moment the flint strikes the frizzen.

Sounds like a lot of work for what we all know is very fast, much faster than you can react to. If it is as much as 1/25 second, I would be surprised. I believe that flint ignition actually begins before the cock hits the stop in the inside of the action. How fast the shot goes off depends on whether you have picked the main charge with a vent pick before firing. Also, on which powder you choose to use, how tightly you pack the charge, etc.

I get the best speed, and the most consistent velocities by loading my prb to a mark, that touches the powder, but does not compact or crush the powder, and therefore leaves much air in and around the larger granules of 2F that I use. Fire is drawn to oxygen, so leaving the air in the chamber encourages quicker ignition. The hole I poke into the powder charge allows many granules to be ignited by the flame from my priming powder, getting many fires going at once. Pressure builds quicker, and the gun fires quicker.

It is fun watching the looks on shooter's faces when they find out how fast a flint gun can go off? I get questioned about that almost every time I am at a range.

 

[Halftail]

fortunately I was on my game this morning)...

Lucky it wasen't a bad day.That would turn anyone off of flintlocks.Unfourtunatly I'm still 50/50 on my flintlock shooting.My gun goes off every time but I haven't seemed to master it.
:redface: Oh well maybe someday

 

[trent/OH]

My last range session was with a Brown Bess. Late in the session a guy came over to chat. he was wearing a Carroll High School (Dayton, OH) jacket the home of the Patriots. He didn't want to shoot (and quite frankly it is an imposing gun) until I told him the same musket was right there on his jacket's embroidery. I talked him through loading and priming, then had him point it at the 50 yard backstop (target already taken down) and Bang he went. Great fun, but he said it was a lot more recoil than he'd ever experienced. That's odd to me, no more recoil than a full power shotgun to my shoulder.

 

[oldarmy]

I finaly took my little .32 southern out to shoot it today for the FIRST TIME
The winter has been warmer then normal :thumbsup: :thumbsup: in northern NH.
There were a bunch of young guys out shooting their
AK's and glocks.
they all came over and had to watch me load and get her ready to fire...Thank goodness she did.
flash and bang.
They were pretty impressed and asked me a thousand guestions.
If we can spread the word, I like it can be a growing sport.
It would help if NH would change it's laws to make muzzel loading a "real primitive" season.

 

[Randy]

There have been several studies done using high sped photography and then counting frames to see how long the ignition process takes. I think that muzzleblast article may reference these at the end. One study was trying to determine what effect granule size had on ignition speed. I believe their conclusion was that 4f was fastest but by such a small margin that nobody could ever tell the difference. Other factors such as fouling, dull flint, moisture, size of touch hole, all play a much, much bigger role in speed of ignition. I have used 3f and 2f in the pan with equal success to 4f. My conclusion is that what's in the barrel has more influence on ignition time than what's in the pan.

 

[Toomuch_36]

If we can spread the word, I like it can be a growing sport.
It would help if NH would change it's laws to make muzzel loading a "real primitive" season.

A lot of states would like to put the "primitive" back into muzzleloader season, but once they let the mouse out of the jar by allowing inlines it is very hard to get it back in. Add to that all those "big advertising bucks" and it is down right impossible.

Toomuch
.............
Shoot Flint

 

[jderrick]

I've been trying to enlighten folks as well, in my humble, meager way. For what it's worth, I'm a photographer and weekly columnist for a daily newspaper in Shelby, NC, west of Charlotte. I've done some columns and photos and stuff.... I've got a bunch of columns and more photos than most folks want to look at on my blog,[url] jderrickstar.blogspot.com[/url] (just scroll way down), and one below....
I don't know how many folks read my stuff, but at least one person leaves more educated -- me.

 

[roundball]

Good shot...pun intended!
:grin:

 

[Landngroove]

It's good you gave them a "hands on" demonstration. Some guys I know think it is "too complicated" to shoot flinters, and would rather drop pellets, and sabots. They don't know the fun they are missing.