Don Stith Hawken

[1895man]

Good Day Everyone;
I was visiting with Don Stith about a possible purchase of one of his parts sets. We discussed the Kit Carson model and the S Hawken, both with 33" Tapered Barrels in a .58 Cal.
He indicated that the drop was 2 1/4", this suprised me. Does anyone have a S. Hawken or a Kit Carson from him that could clairfy this?
I have a old CVA Mountain rifle and it's Drop to Heel, Measured from the top of the barrel is about 2 3/8". My LGP is about 3 1/2", I like the way the LGP lines up and feels.
Mr. Stith had mentioned that original Hawkens had less drop than most reproductions.
TOW indicates that the drop on the Kit Carson Hawken half stock is 4" from line of sight.
Do any of you have experience with deHaas Barrels? He indicated that a Rice Barrel was a 6 month wait, Getz was no longer an option.
Thanks in advance for your replies,
Don

 

[BrownBear]

I wasn't aware of that, but it gives me pause. I've got fairly prominent cheek bones, and high combs can feel like they're about to tear my ear off with lots of recoil if the geometry is not just right. If the comb is thin or there's a bit of cast-off, it's less of an issue. It also helps if the sights are a bit higher than some you see. And of course, if I keep the recoil down, either through smaller charges or increased gun weight, it's a help.

But combine a thick comb, no cast-off and low sights, and this kid is likely to be putting a gun up for sale----- no matter how expensive, how hard I've worked on it, or how historically correct.

BTW- Though I haven't handled a Stith Hawken, I've got to think that the tapered 33" x 58 cal barrel will balance like a dream. I've got tapered barrels on two 58's (one longer and one shorter than 33") and the effect on balance compared to untapered barrels is startling.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Its possible that the Kit Carson gun has less drop. Was he talking about drop at comb, or drop at heel? Your post doesn't make that clear.

Remember that Kit Carson was a very small man. He was both shorter than average, and skinny, and he weighed a lot less than the average guy. Its possible that the Hawken brothers built the stock to fit him, and that it has a shorter Drop at Heel than most other hawkens.

Unless you can measure that gun, I don't know how this issue is settled. Don Stith is considered an authority on Hawkens, however, and I would think he of all people would know what he is talking about. This may be just one more reason why building guns to be an " EXACT" replica of some historical firearm may not produce a gun that fits YOU!

If it were me, I would have the gun built to my needs, and measurements. But, then, I am a bit of a heretic, here. :grin: :hmm: :thumbsup:

 

[doulos]

Im having a Stith S Hawken built right now. I liked the fact that this kit had less drop stock than TOTW stocks. If I remember correctly mine had 2.5 inches drop and 13 5/8 lop and it did appear to have a slight cast off. There are a lot of things that contribute to a felt recoil. The gun has to fit. A good cheek piece is important too. My Renegade with .58 GM barrel smacks me good without a cheek piece . A cheek piece to me helps felt recoil to and stops the gun from whacking me in the face. Also the LOP cant be too long for me.
I also think less drop will make a gun feel like its recoiling straight back instead of up. Most English style sporting rifles of very large calibers have very little drop. Just my 2 cents. As for barrels my kit has a 34 inch .58 cal tapered Colerain. I'll let you know how mine feels and exact measurements when I get it.

 

[BrownBear]

I just checked, and my GRRW Hawken is noticeably higher than either my factory GPR or my kit GPR, but not as high as I recall on a TC. Yet it's the most comfortable of all to sight and shoot.

That has to be due to the combo of cast-off and a very well-configured cheek piece.

Without putting the measure stick up to any of them, that tells me there is lots more than drop to consider in finding the right setup for an individual's comfort and ease of sighting.

 

[J.D.]

DeHass barrels are among the best. As to the drop?

Is the drop measured from the centerline of the bore, or top of the sights?

One way to determine if the amount of drop is right for you is to make a plywood try stock with a pivot point at the wrist. Adjust the amount of drop until it is comfortable, then compare that to the drop in the Stith rifle.

 

[LaBonte]

FWIW - Don's stocks are exacting copies of original J & S or S Hawkens (many of which he has owned), most others including TOTW's are not....

As JD note Dehaas barrels are excellent...

 

[Mulebrain]

This kit from Track, is copied from the original Jim Bridger Hawken

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I don't have a Stith Hawken, but I have a very authentic S. Hawken reproduction that has about the same drop you are describing along with nearly a quarter inch of cast off. It is very comfortable to use with heavy loads and is a natural pointer. The tapered barrel is a wonderful addition to any rifle, but is splendid on a Hawken. Balance is improved beyond belief and even carrying the rifle is nicer. DeHaas barrels are quality items--I'd have no worries about them.