Cleaning bore: Is boiling water advantageous?

[coloradoclyde]

Dont think its for sale. Gotta make it.

I thought you were talking about this.
http://www.brownells.com/gun-clean...solvents/ed-s-red-bore-cleaner-prod19936.aspx

A+ if you’re making it yourself
:thumbsup:

 

[longcruise]

Did not realize that brownels had this product. Wonder if Ed licensed it or maybe he is producing it himself?

Eds red is kinda like our "moose milk" in ml community. I have personally read four different recipes for moose milk and who knows how many others there are. Same with Eds Red. Lots of variations that all carry the same name, hence my reference to internet legend.

FWIW, here is the recipe straight from eds own key board:

CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner

1 part Dexron II, IIe or III ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.

1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1

1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec. TT-T-2981F, CAS
#64741-49-9, or may substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or
equivalent, (aka "Varsol")

1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.

(Optional up to 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, OK to
substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)

 

[Al Bently]

They had lye soap. I have used my wife's homemade lye soap & it works very well.

SOMETIMES they had lye soap. Other times they used ashes (a base.) If someone is touting "water only" in a reenacting sort of situation, that would make sense, but otherwise? No.

FYI - water filtered through ashes produces lye which is a very strong base. Traditional lye soap has been and still is made using ashes.
And FWIW - I've been shooting BP since 1962 and other than a few trials of other products have never used anything but room temp water and have never had problems with my guns or needed anything else - soap in fact can cause problems that can't always be seen unless you unbreech the barrel.

Like what?

 

[LaBonte]

Any strong base such as lye can cause scaling of the barrel steel - when the high ammonia content CF bore cleaners first came out for cleaning copper, guys would let it soak and find that the bore had scaled even in stainless barrels, losing accuracy and even at times the barrel itself.
Had it happen to one of my barrels when I loned the gun to a friend who should have asked before using the stuff...$350.00 later I had my rifle back up to par...

 

[Al Bently]

Any strong base such as lye can cause scaling of the barrel steel - when the high ammonia content CF bore cleaners first came out for cleaning copper, guys would let it soak and find that the bore had scaled even in stainless barrels, losing accuracy and even at times the barrel itself.
Had it happen to one of my barrels when I loned the gun to a friend who should have asked before using the stuff...$350.00 later I had my rifle back up to par...

We were talking about dish soap...

 

[coloradoclyde]

Anything to keep the argument going.

 

[pargent]

Cleaning a B/P gun with hot water has been around since 1500 , I am sure it will catch on in the US soon . :wink:

 

[Al Bently]

Cleaning a B/P gun with hot water has been around since 1500 , I am sure it will catch on in the US soon .

Is that an attempt at levity? Soap/water is still superior to water-only for cleaning BP arms. How does that work for you? :hatsoff:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Not at all. I never use soap and only rarely heat the water, neither is necessary, room temperature plain water does just fine.

After a proper cleaning with plain water, a light coat of 3-in-1 Oil or any good gun oil, even sewing machine oil preserves the bore and the rest of the gun. I have never had a problem with even light rusting on any BP firearm cleaned this way.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Reply to: Nobody in Particular

Seriously folks, it took 4 pages to beat to death the most basic of all firearms care topics??

[] Water or something else

[] Hot or not

[] Soap or not

[] Ballistol, WD40, Barricade, sewing machine oil, Bore Butter

[] Brush or not

[] Levity or humor-challenged

If you haven't found a way to properly clean your rifle after a day at the range, there are still a myriad of techniques awaiting you.

Haven't been able to convince everyone else that YOUR method is superior to all others and that everyone using their own routine is somehow doing it all wrong?

If you haven't made converts to your way yet, I'll wager it ain't ever gonna happen.

 

[bpd303]

You're right and arguing about any subject is like wrestling with a pig in mud, you realize that while you are getting dirty, the pig is actually enjoying it.

 

[Zonie]

This is just for you guys who use a grease or oil in your patch lube.

If you don't use either of these things in your patch lube but you use spit or KY Jelly or something like that, water will clean your gun fine.

If you do use a patch lube that contains oil or grease, read on.

Climbing back on my water + detergent (or soap) bandwagon for a while, it's quite amazing what one can learn on the web. No, this isn't a "I saw it on the web so it must be true" thing.
I dug far enough in some of the more educated places like Universities and chemical companies explanations to be pretty confident the answers are true. Without using a bunch of $40 words, I'll give you my take on why you should use a soap or detergent in the cleaning water for your muzzleloader.

As we all know, water doesn't really mix or dissolve in oil or visa versa. That's because water and oil molecules are so different they don't like each other at all. They refuse to mix into a solution that can't be separated.

Some of the fouling will get trapped in the oily residue left in the bore by the lubed patch.
Everybody knows that dirt or dust gets into oily or greasy surfaces and the fouling from shooting black powder is no different.
Just plain water won't remove this stuff simply because it won't mix with the grease or oil.

Here's the weird (or interesting) part.

Soap or detergent molecules have two different ends on them.
One end likes water. The other end likes oil and grease.

When you put some soap or detergent into water, the end that likes it will mix with it. The other end tries to get out of the water and stands there looking for either a drier place or some of its favorite substances...oil.

When it gets next to any oil, it mixes with it.
This basically traps the oil molecule into the water so it can be wiped away or washed away with any more water that comes along.

And to quote Paul Harvey, "And NOW, you know the rest of the story." :grin:

 

[bpd303]

Yep..."soap makes water wetter". :surrender:

 

[M. De Land]

How do you know no converts were made? I've heard things, tried them,saw the advantage and converted to a better mouse trap lots of times.
Not to adopt a better method after trying and proving that it is better is just plain hard headed dumb!
"Well sonny I've been doing it that way for fifty years"! Yup and you could have been doing it better for the same fifty years old timer if your scull wasn't so thick! :rotf: Mike D.

 

[hypo]

Been following this for some time now and you sir see it just as I do.also I use water have for 5 years sometimes hot most of the time not but I only use tallow and beeswax for my lube and water with soap cuts it just fine but I believe if it worked back then it will work now.

 

[M. De Land]

Are you the Labonte of barrel making fame? If so I have your book and have learned quite a bit from it. Mike D.

 

[pargent]

I use soap and hot water, just taking the pi.. out of some of your country men who are 600 years behind the rest of us , still chasing some magic snake oil . :wink:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

.................................
If you haven't made converts to your way yet, I'll wager it ain't ever gonna happen.

:thumbsup:

 

[Dean2]

This is just for you guys who use a grease or oil in your patch lube.

If you don't use either of these things in your patch lube but you use spit or KY Jelly or something like that, water will clean your gun fine.

If you do use a patch lube that contains oil or grease, read on.

Climbing back on my water + detergent (or soap) bandwagon for a while, it's quite amazing what one can learn on the web. No, this isn't a "I saw it on the web so it must be true" thing.
I dug far enough in some of the more educated places like Universities and chemical companies explanations to be pretty confident the answers are true. Without using a bunch of $40 words, I'll give you my take on why you should use a soap or detergent in the cleaning water for your muzzleloader.

As we all know, water doesn't really mix or dissolve in oil or visa versa. That's because water and oil molecules are so different they don't like each other at all. They refuse to mix into a solution that can't be separated.

Some of the fouling will get trapped in the oily residue left in the bore by the lubed patch.
Everybody knows that dirt or dust gets into oily or greasy surfaces and the fouling from shooting black powder is no different.
Just plain water won't remove this stuff simply because it won't mix with the grease or oil.

Here's the weird (or interesting) part.

Soap or detergent molecules have two different ends on them.
One end likes water. The other end likes oil and grease.

When you put some soap or detergent into water, the end that likes it will mix with it. The other end tries to get out of the water and stands there looking for either a drier place or some of its favorite substances...oil.

When it gets next to any oil, it mixes with it.
This basically traps the oil molecule into the water so it can be wiped away or washed away with any more water that comes along.

And to quote Paul Harvey, "And NOW, you know the rest of the story." :grin:

Funny enough, I can now first hand attest to the effectiveness of dish soap and its affect on oil. While filling a large fishing vessel at the dock in Prince Rupert Sept 2014, we had an accidental over flow of gasoline that landed in the water. The attendants at the fueling station used Lemon Joy dish soap, squirted out of the bottles onto the slick, to completely disburse the rather large and growing oily slick caused by the spilled gasoline.

Up until then I have never even heard of using dish soap for that. Secondly, I also know that a couple of drops of dish soap in your windshield washer water removes bugs FAR more effectively from the windshield than water alone. It is clear that it helps cut the grease and crud that water alone has trouble emulsifying.

Based on those two instances alone it seems pretty clear to me that adding a little dish soap to your cleaning water is going to be a good thing. Not totally necessary but definitely will speed things up. If you prefer to use water alone, "have a happy", some folks just like to suffer and do things the hard way, but I know how I now clean my muzzle loader.

 

[longcruise]

Well, Zonie, now you got me thinking about a pre wipe with Go Jo! But not the stuff with pumice in it.