Cannon ID help needed

Discussion in 'Cannon' started by jpc, Nov 1, 2013.

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  1. Nov 1, 2013 #1

    jpc

    jpc

    jpc

    36 Cal.

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    Length 28"
    Weight 110 lbs
    Bore 2 1/8"

    Any information as to age and origin would be appreciated.

    take care

    jpc

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  2. Nov 1, 2013 #2

    KABAR2

    KABAR2

    KABAR2

    40 Cal.

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    By the looks of it, crude moldings and overall scale I would say it is not old but made sometime since say 1950 on...... the field for the touch hole looks like it may have been made with a die grinder it's hard to say from the photos but it doesn't look like the bore is steel lined.... from it's length it could work in a naval carraige or as a swivel gun.... hope this helps.
     
  3. Nov 1, 2013 #3

    jpc

    jpc

    jpc

    36 Cal.

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    Thank you for your opinion and it is appreciated.

    I have concerns about it's age :)

    Open to all opinions and help

    take care

    jpc
     
  4. Nov 1, 2013 #4

    satx78247

    satx78247

    satx78247

    Cannon MLF Supporter

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    IF I was making a SWAG, I would say that it's what we call a FIESTA CANNON in South TX & Latin America. = According to the curator of The American History Museum in WDC, Fiesta Cannons were generally 18-30 inches in overall length, roughly cast of iron (rather than bronze, brass or steel), have "relatively large touch-holes" and seldom greater than 3 inch bore. Such cannons were NOT designed to be used as artillery; instead, they were designed to fire salutes in holidays.
    (The REAL Gonzales Cannon, used in the skirmish of 1835 in TX, was originally a Fiesta cannon, btw. It was made in the late 18th Century in Spain and is approximately a ONE POUNDER, by bore size.)

    According to the curator, MANY (but by no means all) such guns were marked on the muzzle with a manufacturer's code that indicated the foundry, date of casting, recommended charge, etc.
    Furthermore, Fiesta cannons were frequently "sized" by the pounds of WATER that the barrel would hold, as they were not designed for firing projectiles.

    yours, satx
     
  5. Nov 1, 2013 #5

    jpc

    jpc

    jpc

    36 Cal.

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    Great information and thanks for the input. :):):)

    take care

    jpc
     
  6. Nov 1, 2013 #6

    satx78247

    satx78247

    satx78247

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    IF my SWAG is correct (and my guess may be dead wrong), your little cannon may have been cast on 07JAN1818 and as well as being nearly 2 centuries old, may have considerable historical significance.

    Again, if it was my gun, I would have it professionally appraised/authenticated by an expert on such things.- For one thing it may well be "historically significant" and as well need to be quite heavily insured against loss.
    (May I remind you that we Texicans still wouldn't know about the TRUE "Gonzales cannon" IF Dr. Patrick Wagner, MD had not taken that "unknown cannon" to The Smithsonian Institute for assessment?)

    just my OPINION, satx
     
  7. Nov 1, 2013 #7

    satx78247

    satx78247

    satx78247

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    GOOD LUCK on your search!

    yours, satx
     
  8. Nov 2, 2013 #8

    KABAR2

    KABAR2

    KABAR2

    40 Cal.

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    cannon foundries of the period would mark the cannon engraving the date... this is stamped which is why I didn't bother commenting on it earlier from overall condition I truly doubt this little cannon was made in 1818. Actually after taking a look at the stamping I see NO date at all..... just 71487703 how this became "07jan1818"? might be someone's social security number.....
     
  9. Nov 2, 2013 #9

    satx78247

    satx78247

    satx78247

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    As I read it, the crudely engraved number looks like 71'187703, which LOOKS like the typical ("reversed" to us in the USA) European system for dating PLUS 7703, which I suspect is the foundry's code.
    (In case you didn't bother to count, that's not enough numbers for a SSN.)

    I'm NOT an expert on cannons. Instead I'm relying on the written description of "fiesta cannons" by an actual expert on such guns at The Smithsonian.- You will note that the cannon owned by the forum's member FITS "the general description" of the characteristics of fiesta "noise-makers".

    yours, satx
     
  10. Nov 2, 2013 #10

    KABAR2

    KABAR2

    KABAR2

    40 Cal.

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    I am familiar with European dating with month in the middle. the numbers are stamped not engraved. and actually if you look at the photo there is part of another digit at the edge of the photo so there is enough for a SS number... this gun is not old I doubt it's European, I have been studying/collecting cannon for 35 years and can recognize a repro when I see one.
     
  11. Nov 2, 2013 #11

    satx78247

    satx78247

    satx78247

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    And you are 100% SURE of that?
    And that NO foundry EVER stamped their work, if that is stamping?

    I just think that he needs to get the cannon authenticated/appraised.

    yours, satx
     
  12. Nov 2, 2013 #12

    ChrisPer

    ChrisPer

    ChrisPer

    45 Cal.

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    Well, its a good start seeing what a bunch of other guys think it is. I might be a newbie but there are smarter folk in the room.

    Those number stamps can be a bit of a signature; they are as recognisable as handwriting. They may be put on by the manufacturer or an owner eg for registration, and we probably all can recognise ones that look like 1970's onward metal shop class stamping. These dont ring a bell for me, but they look like the 19th-20th century.

    It may be a fiesta cannon, or possibly an insurance gun. (As a newbie, I have heard that in the 1800s insurance contracts required a ship have certain guns even though they were pretty much obsolete as an idea for trading ships, and they bought plain and cheap cast steel ones that were unlikely to be fired.)
     
  13. Nov 2, 2013 #13

    satx78247

    satx78247

    satx78247

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    Incidentally IF my SWAG is correct and it's a Fiesta Cannon, it's approximately a 3.7 pounder.

    yours, satx
     
  14. Nov 3, 2013 #14

    jpc

    jpc

    jpc

    36 Cal.

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    "It may be a fiesta cannon, or possibly an insurance gun. (As a newbie, I have heard that in the 1800s insurance contracts required a ship have certain guns even though they were pretty much obsolete as an idea for trading ships, and they bought plain and cheap cast steel ones that were unlikely to be fired."

    I found this interesting and thanks :)
     
  15. Nov 17, 2013 #15

    Guest

    Is there any markings on the end of the trunnions?
     
  16. Nov 17, 2013 #16

    TheDoubleD

    TheDoubleD

    TheDoubleD

    40 Cal.

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    Casting lines, bore size and oversized reinforces are not signs of old cannon--more in line with typical cast iron piece from the 50's---1950's.

    Can't say that eliminates it from a fiesta gun.

    Few taps with a hammer to see rings like cast iron should tel the tale.

    Definitely not a shooter without having a liner installed.
     
  17. Nov 19, 2013 #17

    jpc

    jpc

    jpc

    36 Cal.

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    Hello

    No markings on the trunnions :(


    "Few taps with a hammer to see rings like cast iron should tell the tale." what am I listening for?? Thanks for the help and advise.

    take care
    jpc
     
  18. Nov 21, 2013 #18

    Guest

    Barrel should ring like a bell. If not, then spike it.
     
  19. Nov 21, 2013 #19

    Wes/Tex

    Wes/Tex

    Wes/Tex

    Cannon

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    Yeah, more like 'ding' and less like 'dunk'. :thumbsup:
     
  20. Nov 22, 2013 #20

    satx78247

    satx78247

    satx78247

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    WHY would the owner want to "spike it"?

    IF it's a fiesta cannon, it should be fine to fire "salutes" with, presuming that it's otherwise in good condition.
    (As we wagon trainers found out in 1986, it doesn't take much BP to make a BIG boom. - We only "broke out windows" using way too much BP once = CHUCKLE.)

    yours, satx
     

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