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Bullet casting/sizing advice welcome...

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Dogwood

32 Cal
Joined
Apr 20, 2024
Messages
14
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Location
Upper Shenandoah Valley
The gun: Pedersoli .451 caliber Mortimer-Whitworth. This started me bullet casting, cuz getting the bullets from the only source I could find was a little expensive.

The bullet molds: (1) Lyman .45 cal 450 grain "volunteer" bullet. (2) Lee .452 cal 255 grain conical. Both resized with Lee .451 resizing die.

The problem: constant jamming. (2) is especially difficult. I use plenty of lube in the form of animal fat or fat/beeswax mix, and the first round is usually not a problem. The problem is the second one... and every one after that until the next full cleaning and relube. So the gun is a real pain to take target shooting. I've actually been out there with a metal rod and a hammer, smacking bullets down so I could get off a few more shots off before having to go home. Already broke one wooden rod.

I've ordered another sizing die at .449, so we'll see what putting the bullets through that does. However, at the same time I don't wanna lose accuracy. The gun shoots pretty well. Just a pain to reload. Admittedly my lead is from wheel weights. I've considered buying pure lead.

Advice welcome...
 
1. NO wheel weights. ONLY soft, pure lead.
2. Mic the bore. Pin guages are best way to find true land to land diameter. Bullets sized .001"-.002" under that should slide down without too much force.
3. Rough bore? My Great Plains rifle in .54 made in the 90's was a rough beast to load after first shot and shredded patches. A rough bore makes range life miserable. Get an undersized bore jag, some scotchbrite and go at it. Polish that bore. My GPR was easy to load after knocking off the machining burrs in the rifling.
 
I'm no expert, so tell me to kiss off, it won't hurt my feelings. I noticed you didn't mention a wad. I use a well greased felt wad between the powder and the bullet. It protects the base from hot gas to prevent leading the barrel, and helps wipe more lube in the bore, and I feel the felt helps cushion and give better groups. I've also used cardboard wads, and a greased patch shoved down before ramming the bullet. Both work, but the felt was best. I only get a few shots with the conicals before it gets too tight. I use a jag, jersey patch, and water/dawn that I keep in a little spritz bottle. I wet the patch, scrub, flip the patch over, scrub and done, maybe 30s. Then I'm good to shoot another 5 rounds or so.
 
@Dogwood, listen to @akroguy. The bullets cast from wheel weights are too hard. The wheel weight bullets will cast larger than pure lead so running them through the sizer will be difficult. You need to know the precise diameter of the land-to-land dimension of the bore to determine the diameter of the sizing die. It's not really that awful to wipe the bore between shots. Use a slightly undersized jag than one used for cleaning to slide over the powder fouling and let the wiping patch bunch up to pull fouling out of the barrel.
 
I'm no expert, so tell me to kiss off, it won't hurt my feelings. I noticed you didn't mention a wad. I use a well greased felt wad between the powder and the bullet. It protects the base from hot gas to prevent leading the barrel, and helps wipe more lube in the bore, and I feel the felt helps cushion and give better groups. I've also used cardboard wads, and a greased patch shoved down before ramming the bullet. Both work, but the felt was best. I only get a few shots with the conicals before it gets too tight. I use a jag, jersey patch, and water/dawn that I keep in a little spritz bottle. I wet the patch, scrub, flip the patch over, scrub and done, maybe 30s. Then I'm good to shoot another 5 rounds or so.
Thanks. I'm gonna start using wads and see how it turns out.
 
Yep. Actually wiping with 2-3 patches between every shot. Otherwise it jams.
That's a lot of wiping! Could you be dealing with a rough bore? Could you have leading in the bore?

I had a 50 that was used to shoot maxi balls and they were a very tight fit. I ended up pushing them base first into a lee 501 sizer but without going all the way through so that the front band is not sized. Made for easier loading and the front band still held the bullet aligned.
 
That's a lot of wiping! Could you be dealing with a rough bore? Could you have leading in the bore?

I had a 50 that was used to shoot maxi balls and they were a very tight fit. I ended up pushing them base first into a lee 501 sizer but without going all the way through so that the front band is not sized. Made for easier loading and the front band still held the bullet aligned.
From how it feels, I think the bore is smooth, but a scrub may be worthwhile. I am concerned about the possibility of leading, especially since I've been using wheel weights. Question: what's the best way to get leading out?
 
From how it feels, I think the bore is smooth, but a scrub may be worthwhile. I am concerned about the possibility of leading, especially since I've been using wheel weights. Question: what's the best way to get leading out?
I've been condemned here for saying this previously but here I go again. Fine steel wool wrapped around the jag. If leading is bad you will see it in the steel wool. Keep at it until there's no more showing. No lube or "solvent".

I got this from Scheutzen competitors and BPCR shooters at my club. I have done it myself with ml guns and with a 45-70 falling block that had become leaded. It was easy to see that it cleaned up the lead and didn't do any harm to the bore.
 
@WonkyEye are you precision cutting your wads or do as long as it's the same nominal caliber it's effective?
I am not, but I've been thinking the same thing as you. I suspect a slightly larger wad, maybe .510 would be even more effective because it would be a more forceful wiping action. I have a punch, just need to find some quality wool felt.

I've been using .50 dry felt wads from track of the wolf. I've used DGL lube, mink oil, beeswax and olive, they all work to help prevent leading and help to soften the fouling but eventually everything needs wiped in my limited experience.

Spit PRB with a grease patch every few rounds is as close as I've gotten to shooting continuously without wiping, but the conicals have been less cooperative.

again, not an expert, just a guy with maybe 1000 rounds of experimentation sharing my observations
 
I've been condemned here for saying this previously but here I go again. Fine steel wool wrapped around the jag. If leading is bad you will see it in the steel wool. Keep at it until there's no more showing. No lube or "solvent".

I got this from Scheutzen competitors and BPCR shooters at my club. I have done it myself with ml guns and with a 45-70 falling block that had become leaded. It was easy to see that it cleaned up the lead and didn't do any harm to the bore.
I won't condemn you, it's your rifle. Personally I wouldn't want to risk grinding down the corners of the lands by making a habit of doing it. I have done what you're suggesting with copper choir boy, and with scotch brite in the past. Both can still abrade steel, but at a slower rate. Still not something I want to do every time I shoot.
 
I'm not a wad user mainly because my shooting of conicals is very limited. In fact almost nonexistent in the past five years. But, I have family members who favor them so I am a supplier to them.

But I am tempted the next time I work with conicals to give them a try. So, leading (no pun there) up to my thought. I wonder what the results might be. These are stiffer and might form a good seal.

https://www.sagesoutdoors.com/50-caliber-060-vegetable-fiber-wads/
 
I won't condemn you, it's your rifle. Personally I wouldn't want to risk grinding down the corners of the lands by making a habit of doing it. I have done what you're suggesting with copper choir boy, and with scotch brite in the past. Both can still abrade steel, but at a slower rate. Still not something I want to do every time I shoot.
It does (NOT) effect the bore (ONLY) polishes it , Famed GUN SMITH/ BUILDERWORLD TITLE HOLDER has a method he shares with folks interested enough to look it up . Provides for free what his shop charges big bucks for, if you want to to know what the expert says rather than folks that wish they knew ! Google is your friend , when Lee builds a new gun worthy of competition he does this procedure before he ever fires it new/old barrels all get the same treatment . He tells of one time at a major competition he brought a never fired and won the entire match that day!!! AND yes it involves steel wool and solvent , and removes lead 100 percent !!!!
Lee Shavers bore treatment /Ed
 
Akroguy and Grenadier are leading you down the right path

Almost nothing about shooting a patched round ball is applicable to what you are doing, what you are attempting is closer to BPCR rifles.

Pure lead only or about 20 to 1, never wheel weights.
Bullet weight should match the twist rate within reason.
Bullet must be sized to the bore size.
You must wipe between shots (not absolutely necessary for PRB's)

There are several commercial products that are designed to remove lead, do a search on Midway USA or others, I have filled a clean bore with Kroil and left it over night and then a clean patch will wipe the lead right out.
 
The gun: Pedersoli .451 caliber Mortimer-Whitworth. This started me bullet casting, cuz getting the bullets from the only source I could find was a little expensive.

The bullet molds: (1) Lyman .45 cal 450 grain "volunteer" bullet. (2) Lee .452 cal 255 grain conical. Both resized with Lee .451 resizing die.

The problem: constant jamming. (2) is especially difficult. I use plenty of lube in the form of animal fat or fat/beeswax mix, and the first round is usually not a problem. The problem is the second one... and every one after that until the next full cleaning and relube. So the gun is a real pain to take target shooting. I've actually been out there with a metal rod and a hammer, smacking bullets down so I could get off a few more shots off before having to go home. Already broke one wooden rod.

I've ordered another sizing die at .449, so we'll see what putting the bullets through that does. However, at the same time I don't wanna lose accuracy. The gun shoots pretty well. Just a pain to reload. Admittedly my lead is from wheel weights. I've considered buying pure lead.

Advice welcome...
I’ve used 20:1 alloys with no problem. That being said, I run a patch dampened with Heet gas line treatment down the bore after every shot. My bullets are sized a thousandth under bore size and so I have a selection of sizing dies from .449-.452”. For best accuracy wiping between shots is a necessary part of the process. At least for me.

I do use the .030” x .462” veggie fiber wads under all conical bullets and using the Stihl HPSynthetic modified SPG lube recipe I have no leading at all.
 
It does (NOT) effect the bore (ONLY) polishes it , Famed GUN SMITH/ BUILDERWORLD TITLE HOLDER has a method he shares with folks interested enough to look it up . Provides for free what his shop charges big bucks for, if you want to to know what the expert says rather than folks that wish they knew ! Google is your friend , when Lee builds a new gun worthy of competition he does this procedure before he ever fires it new/old barrels all get the same treatment . He tells of one time at a major competition he brought a never fired and won the entire match that day!!! AND yes it involves steel wool and solvent , and removes lead 100 percent !!!!
Lee Shavers bore treatment /Ed


Lee Shaver’s Break-in Procedure

Having used the jacketed bullet/clean-between-shot process in the past and
specifically Badger’s procedure when breaking-in one of my Browning BPCRs, I
was not looking forward to repeating the very lengthy process with my other
Browning’s. Fortunately Lee Shaver came to the rescue with his much simpler and
less time consuming process. With permission from Lee I’ve included the details
of his procedure. It’s from a larger article Lee published in the May 2013 edition
of The Single Shot Exchange Magazine.

“Excerpt from “Breaking In a Barrel” by Lee Shaver:
Several years ago, I developed a process for breaking-in barrels for lead bullet use
that eliminated the afternoon of shooting and cleaning with jacketed bullet. It
began because I would occasionally have to get bad leading out of a barrel for a
customer, and when you charge what a gunsmith must charge to stay in business
you don’t want to spend an afternoon scrubbing the lead out of a customer’s gun.
And I’m sure the customer would rather not pay for said services.

What I learned was that when scrubbing lead out of a barrel, I could run a tight oily
patch through a few times and then take the patch off the jag. I would then unroll a
little 0000 steel wool and cut a piece the size of the patch. Place that over the
patch and then run it all through together. (The proper fit is when you have to
bump the rod a few times with the palm of your hand to get it started in the bore.)
When you shove that steel wool over a patch through the bore of a badly leaded
barrel, it may sound like paper tearing as the lead is ripped out of the barrel in a
pass or two. I can clean the lead out of the worst barrel in about ten or fifteen
minutes that way, and an average leaded barrel will be clean in a few strokes.

After using this technique for a while, I began to notice that the rifles that I was de-
leading that way seemed to lead less afterwards, which got me to thinking. We use
fine steel wool on the outside of old guns all the time to do some cleaning or spot
rust removal, and it does not damage the surface of the steel. It just scrubs it.
Which lead me to consider the fact that we are trying to break in a barrel by
smoothing the surface without cutting, and it seems to me that process would go
much quicker if we used something on the inside of the bore that was closer to the
hardness of the barrel instead of lead or copper. So I started trying the steel wool
and oiled patch technique on new barrels before shooting them. I use it about as
tight as I can get in the bore and wear out a steel wool pad or two in about 15
minutes, then I go and shoot the rifle.

How well does it work you might ask? On a few occasions, I have built a new rifle
and taken it to a match without ever having fired the rifle. All have performed
flawlessly in their first match and several times I won the match or set a record
with them. On one occasion, I set a new 300 yard range record with the first 13
shots out of a barrel. This method has become a service we offer to our customers
here in the shop and I have shared the technique many times with others.

So the next time you get ready to shoot that new rifle, just remember it is important
to break in a barrel properly, but if the operation you are doing to the barrel cuts –
it is not breaking it in. It may be making the barrel smoother, but to break the
barrel in you need to polish the bore by burnishing not cutting either by shooting it
or scrubbing it.”
Lee Shaver
 
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