Guest
Here is a scrap piece of the wood from this stock.put Aquafortis on it laid it on top of my wood boiler then rubed one cat of Tru-oil on it and this is how it came out.
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First off woodhick , your grandson is a lucky boy, he'll have something to cherish for the rest of his life. Next, awfully purdy chunk of maple your working on, curly maple works like an aphrodesiac for me - makes feel all warm and fuzzy!! Nice lines on that stock , nice and sleek , your grandson will enjoy making smoke with it. My 1st gun was from a chunk of maple, 2nd and 3rd were pre- shaped, saved alot of time but not the latitude you have from a solid piece of wood. Good job so far ,enjoy the rest of the build, and keep us posted on your progress. Wild Eagle
Guest
Well I think most folks would do the same for their granson if they had the chance.
Actually I am helping a neighbor boy put together a Traditions 50cal perc. I bought the kit for him for shoveling my sidewalk all winter. He did it for me since I took ill a couple years ago. This will be the third muzzleloader I have bought and given to kids.(not counting the one for my grandson). First one I gave to a young man when i was liveing in Independence Va. one to a local boy here in PA that would go to the local range and was intrigued by my muzzleloader. And then this one presently me and this young man are putting together now.
If finances permit I plan on doing this for some young man every year. I just save all my loose change and buy a kit and then help them put it together. Gives them a sence of pride when they get it done and the look on thier face is priceless , espically when they shoot it the first time :thumbsup:
Actually I am helping a neighbor boy put together a Traditions 50cal perc. I bought the kit for him for shoveling my sidewalk all winter. He did it for me since I took ill a couple years ago. This will be the third muzzleloader I have bought and given to kids.(not counting the one for my grandson). First one I gave to a young man when i was liveing in Independence Va. one to a local boy here in PA that would go to the local range and was intrigued by my muzzleloader. And then this one presently me and this young man are putting together now.
If finances permit I plan on doing this for some young man every year. I just save all my loose change and buy a kit and then help them put it together. Gives them a sence of pride when they get it done and the look on thier face is priceless , espically when they shoot it the first time :thumbsup:
Guest
Jim
You will enjoy doing one from a blank and will understand and appriciate it all that much more. This one wasn't that hard to inlet the barrel being it is a straight barrel in 32 cal. Careful router work then chiseling off the two flats at 4 and 8 oclock made it easy.
I agree the book mentioned is the best tool you could have when doing a gun from scratch with a blank stock.I would recomend it to anyone who is thinking of building a piece from scratch.
As far as dremel tool is concerened i would recomend NOTto even think of useing one.
A hand drill is helpful as is a belt sander if you are careful not to try and do a final forming with it.
A set of chisels along with exacto knife with extra blades is a must and a good arkansas stone to keep them sharp is a must also. I sharp tool is the best way to keep from messing the wood up IMO.
And one other word of advise is that when you get tired just stop. You can not be in a hurry doing any of it. To take a break and think about it is the best thing to do before you do it wrong.
I went back and reread the book several times just to be certain so i wouldn't make a mistake.
Good luck on your new build and keep us posted. If you have any question and I may be of some help feel free to PM me any time :thumbsup:
You will enjoy doing one from a blank and will understand and appriciate it all that much more. This one wasn't that hard to inlet the barrel being it is a straight barrel in 32 cal. Careful router work then chiseling off the two flats at 4 and 8 oclock made it easy.
I agree the book mentioned is the best tool you could have when doing a gun from scratch with a blank stock.I would recomend it to anyone who is thinking of building a piece from scratch.
As far as dremel tool is concerened i would recomend NOTto even think of useing one.
A hand drill is helpful as is a belt sander if you are careful not to try and do a final forming with it.
A set of chisels along with exacto knife with extra blades is a must and a good arkansas stone to keep them sharp is a must also. I sharp tool is the best way to keep from messing the wood up IMO.
And one other word of advise is that when you get tired just stop. You can not be in a hurry doing any of it. To take a break and think about it is the best thing to do before you do it wrong.
I went back and reread the book several times just to be certain so i wouldn't make a mistake.
Good luck on your new build and keep us posted. If you have any question and I may be of some help feel free to PM me any time :thumbsup:
Woodhick,
That's a LOT of work for four days. You are to be commended for taking the plunge into scratch building, not to mention taking so many youngsters under your wing.
However, I would like to offer a coupla suggestions to improve your finished gun for your grandson.
I think you would have been better off to leave the stock square until all of the components are inlet.
There is a relationship between parts that determines the archetecture of the stock, and the relationship to other parts. It's much harder to achieve those proper relationships in a precarve, and that is what you now have.
For example, the barrel determines the location of the lock. The lock determines the location of the trigger/triggers. The triggers determine the location of the triggerguard.
The trigger also determines the location of the butt plate, depending on the length of pull.
The amount of drop at the heel and toe of the comb are determined by, not only the shooters body size and LOP, but by the location of the top of the sights. The drop also affects the location of the buttplate.
The buttplate determines the cross sectional shaping of the butt.
The location of the buttplate also determies the location of the cheepiece.
The thickness of the barrel, the web between the bottom of the barrel channel and the ramrod hole, in addition to the diameter of the rr hole and a "little extra underneath" determines the thickness of the rifle at the breech/lock area.
Taking all of those things into consideration, the barrel, lock, triggers, guard, and buttplate should have been inlet BEFORE the stock was shaped.
For an illustration of what I'm talking about, go to the rifle building tutorial on the Member Resources page of this forum.
IMHO, you could have saved yourself a LOT of effort, a LOT of time and achieved better architecture by leaving the stock square until those realtionships were established.
As it is, you will have to reshape the stock after those parts are added.
ALso, holding a square stock in a vise while inletting those components is MUCH easier than trying to hold a contoured stock.
In looking at the thickness of the stock under the lock, I suspect that you will have to reduce that thickness just to inlet the triggers deep enough to activate the sear bar.
If you plan to use double set triggers, the set screw between the triggers should be in a direct vertical line under the sear bar. In other words, the triggers should centered on the sear bar of the lock.
You mentioned that you used "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle", which is Dixon's book, if I remember correctly. I haven't read that one, but the best instructions to lay out a longrifle I have seen are in Alexanders' "Gunsmith of Grenville County".
IMHO, Buchele's "Recreating the Americn Longrifle" is probably one of the better books on building.
J.D.
That's a LOT of work for four days. You are to be commended for taking the plunge into scratch building, not to mention taking so many youngsters under your wing.
However, I would like to offer a coupla suggestions to improve your finished gun for your grandson.
I think you would have been better off to leave the stock square until all of the components are inlet.
There is a relationship between parts that determines the archetecture of the stock, and the relationship to other parts. It's much harder to achieve those proper relationships in a precarve, and that is what you now have.
For example, the barrel determines the location of the lock. The lock determines the location of the trigger/triggers. The triggers determine the location of the triggerguard.
The trigger also determines the location of the butt plate, depending on the length of pull.
The amount of drop at the heel and toe of the comb are determined by, not only the shooters body size and LOP, but by the location of the top of the sights. The drop also affects the location of the buttplate.
The buttplate determines the cross sectional shaping of the butt.
The location of the buttplate also determies the location of the cheepiece.
The thickness of the barrel, the web between the bottom of the barrel channel and the ramrod hole, in addition to the diameter of the rr hole and a "little extra underneath" determines the thickness of the rifle at the breech/lock area.
Taking all of those things into consideration, the barrel, lock, triggers, guard, and buttplate should have been inlet BEFORE the stock was shaped.
For an illustration of what I'm talking about, go to the rifle building tutorial on the Member Resources page of this forum.
IMHO, you could have saved yourself a LOT of effort, a LOT of time and achieved better architecture by leaving the stock square until those realtionships were established.
As it is, you will have to reshape the stock after those parts are added.
ALso, holding a square stock in a vise while inletting those components is MUCH easier than trying to hold a contoured stock.
In looking at the thickness of the stock under the lock, I suspect that you will have to reduce that thickness just to inlet the triggers deep enough to activate the sear bar.
If you plan to use double set triggers, the set screw between the triggers should be in a direct vertical line under the sear bar. In other words, the triggers should centered on the sear bar of the lock.
You mentioned that you used "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle", which is Dixon's book, if I remember correctly. I haven't read that one, but the best instructions to lay out a longrifle I have seen are in Alexanders' "Gunsmith of Grenville County".
IMHO, Buchele's "Recreating the Americn Longrifle" is probably one of the better books on building.
J.D.
Guest
JD
I appricieate your support and expert ideas. That is what makes this forum so great is so many people with experience willing to help each other out.
I have found some of this out as I inlet the trigger plate today . You are 101% correct as to leaveing it square to do the inletting. This as I have said is my first scratch build and I have learned much more than I ever have from a precarved kit.
And I am glad I took the project on and to be truthfull I am looking forward to doing another one from scratch soon. If i keep doing a few more from scratch I think I can only improve from project to project. One thing I desided that when i started this one is that it doesn't have to be any certain school piece and if I was satisified with the final out come then I can improve on the next.
The young boy who I am helping with the Traditions percussion was here today after school and to just see the twinkle in his eyes is more than worth the time spent to help him out. I am a firm believer that we all need to give the youth more of our time and mentoring .They are our future.
I appricieate your support and expert ideas. That is what makes this forum so great is so many people with experience willing to help each other out.
I have found some of this out as I inlet the trigger plate today . You are 101% correct as to leaveing it square to do the inletting. This as I have said is my first scratch build and I have learned much more than I ever have from a precarved kit.
And I am glad I took the project on and to be truthfull I am looking forward to doing another one from scratch soon. If i keep doing a few more from scratch I think I can only improve from project to project. One thing I desided that when i started this one is that it doesn't have to be any certain school piece and if I was satisified with the final out come then I can improve on the next.
The young boy who I am helping with the Traditions percussion was here today after school and to just see the twinkle in his eyes is more than worth the time spent to help him out. I am a firm believer that we all need to give the youth more of our time and mentoring .They are our future.
Thanks for those kind words, but I am in no way an expert. I haven't built a gun in probably 20 years, but I have learned a lot from real experts, in the field, during that time.
I would suggest getting every book you can get your hands on relating to longrifles. The two volumes of "Rifles of Colonial America" are a must for anyone interested on longrifles. These books illustrate several detailed views of each rifle, including important dimensions.
Anopther good one for any gun nut is "Gunsmithing Tips and Projects", a compilation of articles on gunsmithing to include quite a few articles on ML gunsmithing and restoration.
And as mentioned earlier, Buchele's "Recreating the American Longrifle", and Alexander's "Gunsmith of Grenville County"
I would also suggest searching the web for any photos of longrifles to use as research material. The link in my last post is a good place to begin, but there are other good photos available as well.
A search on the antique auction sites will reveal more LR photos than you can copy. Though some of those photos aren't worth copying, you will turn up some real gems of LR artistry that will knock your eyes out.
As to building guns of no particular school, Most builders begin by building generic rifles, but usually become interested in making more historically correct guns as they progress.
Building historically accurate rifles may not be your goal, at this point, and that's ok, however, studying original rifles is a must for anyone wanting to build a nice gun, either historically accurate or generic.
Continue with your project and don't hesitate to post photos or ask questions. The real experts on this forum are more than willing to advise anyone who is interested.
J.D.
I would suggest getting every book you can get your hands on relating to longrifles. The two volumes of "Rifles of Colonial America" are a must for anyone interested on longrifles. These books illustrate several detailed views of each rifle, including important dimensions.
Anopther good one for any gun nut is "Gunsmithing Tips and Projects", a compilation of articles on gunsmithing to include quite a few articles on ML gunsmithing and restoration.
And as mentioned earlier, Buchele's "Recreating the American Longrifle", and Alexander's "Gunsmith of Grenville County"
I would also suggest searching the web for any photos of longrifles to use as research material. The link in my last post is a good place to begin, but there are other good photos available as well.
A search on the antique auction sites will reveal more LR photos than you can copy. Though some of those photos aren't worth copying, you will turn up some real gems of LR artistry that will knock your eyes out.
As to building guns of no particular school, Most builders begin by building generic rifles, but usually become interested in making more historically correct guns as they progress.
Building historically accurate rifles may not be your goal, at this point, and that's ok, however, studying original rifles is a must for anyone wanting to build a nice gun, either historically accurate or generic.
Continue with your project and don't hesitate to post photos or ask questions. The real experts on this forum are more than willing to advise anyone who is interested.
J.D.
Guest
I have the trigger plate inlet and the trigger attached to it . Now the trigger is short of hitting the sear so i am going to tig weld more onto the trigger. According to the book Art of building a PA longrifle they said this is normal. I am useing a standard single trigger.
Ok here is my question.
Is it more adventageous to drill a hole in the trigger for the sear to fit in so the trigger won't have slop in it like a military trigger?
In other words here is what I figured on trying to do.
Add sufficient lenght on to the trigger so it can be seen in the sear hole in the lock inlet. Then put trigger and trigger plate in the stock. Put inlet black on the sear and put the lock in the stock and it will then mark the trigger for hole placement for sear to fit into the trigger.
Any suggestion appriciated.
Ok here is my question.
Is it more adventageous to drill a hole in the trigger for the sear to fit in so the trigger won't have slop in it like a military trigger?
In other words here is what I figured on trying to do.
Add sufficient lenght on to the trigger so it can be seen in the sear hole in the lock inlet. Then put trigger and trigger plate in the stock. Put inlet black on the sear and put the lock in the stock and it will then mark the trigger for hole placement for sear to fit into the trigger.
Any suggestion appriciated.
rich pierce
70 Cal.
I would have a lot less wood below the lock and less overall depth of the buttstock. That will place the trigger up closer to the sear. If your trigger needs to be extended, one way of lookin g at that is that your stock is above-average deep below the lock.
I think Rich is on track,if I remember you are using a small siler lock,a little less wood below the lock will mend the trigger problem.The smaller lock may also look better proportioned with less wood around it. You can certainly weld the trigger bar and capture the sear lever with a hole, it's a matter of you wanting to add metal or remove wood, it might be one of those times to sit back, slow down and do some pondering on which turn in the road you want to take. :hmm: :shocked2: 
I suspect that making a captured sear would be waaaaayyyy more trouble than it's worth. I concur with Rich and wildeagle about reducing the thickness below the lock.
IMHO, if too much wood is left below the lock, the panel surrounding the lock will look too wide and clunky.
The moulding arount the lock should be narrow at the bottom, and flow into a slightly wider moulding at the front and rear of the panel.
The wider moulding at front and rear of the panel enhances the illusion of a slim stock in that area.
Look at part 3 of the Brooks rifle building tutorial to see how little wood is left under the lock, on the gun he is working on.
While Alexander's book is pretty good in many respects, IMHO, there are a few things there that makes certain operations harder than they need to be, so don't take everything in that book as gospel, or any book for that matter...other than the Bible, that is. :winking:
J.D.
IMHO, if too much wood is left below the lock, the panel surrounding the lock will look too wide and clunky.
The moulding arount the lock should be narrow at the bottom, and flow into a slightly wider moulding at the front and rear of the panel.
The wider moulding at front and rear of the panel enhances the illusion of a slim stock in that area.
Look at part 3 of the Brooks rifle building tutorial to see how little wood is left under the lock, on the gun he is working on.
While Alexander's book is pretty good in many respects, IMHO, there are a few things there that makes certain operations harder than they need to be, so don't take everything in that book as gospel, or any book for that matter...other than the Bible, that is. :winking:
J.D.
Guest
Thanks for the sugestions. After church tomorrow morning I will take a good look at what the wood around the lock needs done to it to bring the trigger into closer position to the sear. What you folks have said makes sence to me and I will give looking into it.
Will keep you posted as to what i will do and how it come out.
Thanks again folks
Will keep you posted as to what i will do and how it come out.
Thanks again folks
Dan lbsmyr
32 Cal.
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My Hats off to you sir, by giving yourself to our youth we all win! :hatsoff:
You might just might get through to them enough to teach them it is much better to learn skills to make a ramrod pipe than a crack pipe
Keep us informed to how things are going
Thank You!
You might just might get through to them enough to teach them it is much better to learn skills to make a ramrod pipe than a crack pipe
Keep us informed to how things are going
Thank You!
Guest
I will. The young man was here today after school for a couple hours sanding and admireing his new piece. He will have it ready to stain by this weekend and hopefully we will get to take it to the range Sunday after church. He wants to let it brown naturaly instead of useing any chemical to do it. I told him it's his rifle and to finish it the way he wants it .
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