Bend the hammer or set back the barrel ?

[gunpa]

When I put a musket nipple on my Dixie Hawken the slight forward misalignment meant the hammer wouldn't hit the cap. Oxy/acetylene torch fixed it fast!

 

[2 shots]

gun has been fixed

 

[gunpa]

Mine is!

 

[kyron4]

If you unscrew the drum a bit, will the hammer strike true? Before bending anything, I’d try that. If it works, a thin copper washer under it for correct tightness. Regarding thread engagement lost, your talking a minute amount.

That would seem to be the easiest route, if it were truly that easy.

I don't think people realize how tight those drums are torqued , and with no wrench flats to engage , near impossible to get a bite on the drum without heavily marring the drum.

 

[flconch53]

Thanks Notchy Bob for reposting Zonie’s CVA printed piece! It is far and away the best and clearest description of the breach I think I have

The thing to remember is that CVA and Traditions were the same company so alot of older CVA info is relevant to Traditions

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

P.S. Shimming a drum with a washer will mean less thread engagment. Don't want a drum blowing out and hitting a neighbor on the firing line. I order blank drums and have a jig to align for drilling and tapping for a nipple. Just make sure you get the right thread size for the replacment drum.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Making a spacer with something as thin as a soda can will not adjust the drum enough to make the rifle unsafe. But be just enough to align the nipple with the hammer. Semper Fi.

 

[flconch53]

That would seem to be the easiest route, if it were truly that easy.

I don't think people realize how tight those drums are torqued , and with no wrench flats to engage , near impossible to get a bite on the drum without heavily marring the drum.

CVA would install the drum and then torque the breach plug. As far as blowing one out by adjusting the drum alittle. The threads on the patent breach is over 1/2 inch long.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

CVA would install the drum and then torque the breach plug. As far as blowing one out by adjusting the drum alittle. The threads on the patent breach is over 1/2 inch long.

That's correct. Many have a 'cone' at the inner end. That's why I didn't suggest permanent thread lock. Those fill with fouling and need to be removed to be cleaned. Semper Fi.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Have you tried the back up hammer to see if it is "already bent"?

That is a good question, and the answer is "not exactly."

I took careful measurements and compared both hammers, and as near as I can tell, they are identical. However, the square hole for the tumbler in the spare hammer is slightly undersized, so I could not install it in the lock. I am considering fitting this hammer to the lock by only filing the bottom and rear sides of the square hole, rather than filing all four sides equally. This (theoretically) should move the striking face of the hammer up and forward slightly, which is exactly what is needed. However, I'm not sure it will be enough. If it isn't, I'll end up with a lock that has two hammers that need to be bent instead of one.

My problem is that I can't simply clamp the short hammer in a vise and heat it and bend it because my propane torch won't get it hot enough. I have bent CVA hammers for lateral adjustment using this torch and it worked fine. However, CVA hammers are lighter than T/C, and you also have to heat and bend a thicker part of the hammer for anterior-posterior adjustment than for lateral bending. I had the flame on this hammer for fully half an hour and the hammer never even got to dull red.

I'm not ready yet to spend the money and find storage space for a hotter torch just for a little job like this. One of the boys suggested opening up the hammer cup with a Dremel tool. I've already done that, and it helped. The hammer easily clears the nipple now and it will pop a cap, but it still rubs the side of the cap. I would prefer having it hit nearer center, in case I want to try musket caps some day.

The suggestions were appreciated. I'm still working on it, as time allows.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[kyron4]

CVA would install the drum and then torque the breach plug. As far as blowing one out by adjusting the drum alittle. The threads on the patent breach is over 1/2 inch long.

Serious question, I'm not understanding how they could torque the breech plug after the drum is cross threaded into the plug. Doesn't the plug bottom out on the inner wall of the barrel shoulder ? Looking at this cross section picture I'm confused on how the plug can be torqued against the drum.

*sorry could get image to post but here the link to the picture posted by Notchy Bob on page 2

https://cdn2.imagearchive.com/muzzleloadingforum/data/attach/181/181560-CVA-Breech.jpg

 

[SDSmlf]

CVA would install the drum and then torque the breach plug. As far as blowing one out by adjusting the drum alittle. The threads on the patent breach is over 1/2 inch long.

Serious question, I'm not understanding how they could torque the breech plug after the drum is cross threaded into the plug. Doesn't the plug bottom out on the inner wall of the barrel shoulder ? Looking at this cross section picture I'm confused on how the plug can be torqued against the drum.

*sorry could get image to post but here the link to the picture posted by Notchy Bob on page 2

https://cdn2.imagearchive.com/muzzleloadingforum/data/attach/181/181560-CVA-Breech.jpg

@kyron4, just read the text in the CVA description and ignore the gibberish, be it from a typo or ignorance. The CVA text says they torque the bolster (drum) into place after the breech plug is installed.

 

[flconch53]

My mistake I had them torturing the wrong mating part. Either way they don't come out very easily

 

[ronaldrothb49]

That is a good question, and the answer is "not exactly."

I took careful measurements and compared both hammers, and as near as I can tell, they are identical. However, the square hole for the tumbler in the spare hammer is slightly undersized, so I could not install it in the lock. I am considering fitting this hammer to the lock by only filing the bottom and rear sides of the square hole, rather than filing all four sides equally. This (theoretically) should move the striking face of the hammer up and forward slightly, which is exactly what is needed. However, I'm not sure it will be enough. If it isn't, I'll end up with a lock that has two hammers that need to be bent instead of one.

My problem is that I can't simply clamp the short hammer in a vise and heat it and bend it because my propane torch won't get it hot enough. I have bent CVA hammers for lateral adjustment using this torch and it worked fine. However, CVA hammers are lighter than T/C, and you also have to heat and bend a thicker part of the hammer for anterior-posterior adjustment than for lateral bending. I had the flame on this hammer for fully half an hour and the hammer never even got to dull red.

I'm not ready yet to spend the money and find storage space for a hotter torch just for a little job like this. One of the boys suggested opening up the hammer cup with a Dremel tool. I've already done that, and it helped. The hammer easily clears the nipple now and it will pop a cap, but it still rubs the side of the cap. I would prefer having it hit nearer center, in case I want to try musket caps some day.

The suggestions were appreciated. I'm still working on it, as time allows.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Try Mapp gas it burns hotter or try 2 propane torches I have done that to harden frizzens on siler lock kits.

 

[SPQR70AD]

Try Mapp gas it burns hotter or try 2 propane torches I have done that to harden frizzens on siler lock kits.

I read they banned something in the mapp gas that makes it hotter. I light pellets for my stove with propane and Mapp gas and see positively no difference

 

[Howard Pippin]

That is a good question, and the answer is "not exactly."

I took careful measurements and compared both hammers, and as near as I can tell, they are identical. However, the square hole for the tumbler in the spare hammer is slightly undersized, so I could not install it in the lock. I am considering fitting this hammer to the lock by only filing the bottom and rear sides of the square hole, rather than filing all four sides equally. This (theoretically) should move the striking face of the hammer up and forward slightly, which is exactly what is needed. However, I'm not sure it will be enough. If it isn't, I'll end up with a lock that has two hammers that need to be bent instead of one.

My problem is that I can't simply clamp the short hammer in a vise and heat it and bend it because my propane torch won't get it hot enough. I have bent CVA hammers for lateral adjustment using this torch and it worked fine. However, CVA hammers are lighter than T/C, and you also have to heat and bend a thicker part of the hammer for anterior-posterior adjustment than for lateral bending. I had the flame on this hammer for fully half an hour and the hammer never even got to dull red.

I'm not ready yet to spend the money and find storage space for a hotter torch just for a little job like this. One of the boys suggested opening up the hammer cup with a Dremel tool. I've already done that, and it helped. The hammer easily clears the nipple now and it will pop a cap, but it still rubs the side of the cap. I would prefer having it hit nearer center, in case I want to try musket caps some day.

The suggestions were appreciated. I'm still working on it, as time allows.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

You write some pretty good stuff Bob, and I don't know if this will help you, but some Propane torches, like the burnzomatic TC 4000, Will also work with that hotter fuel, mapp gas. It's quite a bit hotter, and you might want to research before you buy a 16 dollar bottle of gas but I'm sure others would work and it's just a hotter flame. Perhaps you've already got pass this but if you have one of those blowtorch heads, it's worth a try.
Squint

 

[Notchy Bob]

You write some pretty good stuff Bob, and I don't know if this will help you, but some Propane torches, like the burnzomatic TC 4000, Will also work with that hotter fuel, mapp gas. It's quite a bit hotter, and you might want to research before you buy a 16 dollar bottle of gas but I'm sure others would work and it's just a hotter flame. Perhaps you've already got pass this but if you have one of those blowtorch heads, it's worth a try.
Squint

Thanks, Squint!

I'll look into that. I appreciate the suggestion.

Notchy Bob

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Never quench a hammer. At best, it serves no purpose, at worst, you run the risk of either cracking it immediately or shattering it the first time you fire the gun. Hammers are usually made of mild steel, but when they are not, if you harden, you also have to temper... which is not so simple as quenching. Let it air-cool slowly... or even better, get a hammer that actually fits. One that doesn't fit is defective.