Becareful if asked to place a value on something.

I get asked daily "What's my Great Grandfather's gun worth"? Most folks want you to pull a figure out of the air with out seeing and researching their firearm. The "Antique Road Show" has given folks an idea that everything has a higher value. I'm sure you have seen some questionable prices on different items over the years.

DO NOT give anyone a "guessment" if asked; because down the road something will happen and the next thing you know you are being quoted as to the item's worth.

Most folks do not understand it takes time to research their wares and give them a reasonable value. Here's an example of one done a few years ago.

_______________________​

08/20/2007
Good Day Mr. Buxxxxx,

Thank you for giving us the chance to look at your guns the other days, nice old history pieces that your grandchildren will enjoy one day.

Manufacturer: J. HETRICK - .45 cal., 35-1/2 inch barrel length, 7/8 inch across the flats, old refinished maple stock with artificial striping, percussion cap ignition (new nipple), broken toe plate, patina brass furniture, dark patina metal, replacement rear sight, broken front sight. At first glance it looks to be NRA good condition.　

Researching the maker’s name is a reference given for this name/builder by the German book “Heer Der Neue Stockel Vol. 1” of “Vol. 1 & 2”. These books are a valuable tool for any collector or researcher dealing with arms of the 1400 -1900 era. They are pricey for the two volume set, but necessary when working with old weapons.

Found several “HETRICK” names listed in the manufacturing of arms but further research showed that for the most part they produced small quantities (less than one hundred recorded). This was from tax records available showing the name HETRICK sending arms to small trading firms and local business supplying the travel west.

For additional information about these “cottage industry” weapons I checked the book by De Witt Bailey, Ph.D. “British Board of Ordnance - Small Arms Contractors 1689-1840.” This book covers everything from the lock to the ramrod and more, those interested in numbers and time periods will enjoy this work. There are two builders listed with the name “HETRICK” but both where very early craftsmen dealing more with 1720 to 1810 flintlock guns, a possible blood line connection.

From: “Heer Der Neue Stockel Vol. 1”.John Hetrick, Newark, Ohio, born approx 1820, died 1896, probably working 1840 ”“ 1880. 　Levi Hetrick, New Orleans, La and Warsaw, Indiana, ca 1853 ”“ 1911 ”“ quite possibly a son of John?

From: “Merwyn Carey, American Firearms Makers 1953”.“Hetrick, John 1858-1870. General gunsmith at Third Street, Newark, Ohio.”

From: “Gluckman & Satterlee”“Hetrick, John, - Norwalk, Huron Co., Ohio, 1866-70. ”˜Employed four hands.’”ã€€ Also found Levi Hetrick in Lima, Ohio, before and after 1888-94.

I found several percussion guns that would be close to or of equal value to yours for the number of arms produced by the maker, condition and style. Some where half stocks along with a few full stock guns. Full stock guns (depending on condition) will bring a few more dollars than the half stock ones.

Biggest thing I was looking for is like conditions and similar time frames of manufacturer. I have provided you with a good example of a gun made in the same area of the country and built close to the time period of your gun.

Here’s an example of a gun made approximately in the same era.

Half stock percussion rifle - Biddle lock - .36 caliber; 34” oct. barrel. - Good condition. - Dark patina metal; markings & engraving on lockplate & hammer weak in places, appears to read “R. & W.C. BIDDLE”.　 Hammer does not hold cock; double set trigger.　 Well done old steel filler to top of lockplate (conversion from flint?) and brass plate repair to wood in front of nipple.　 Patina brass furniture.　 Stock is cracked at the wrist (not apparent in photo) & nice tiger stripe on forend.$685.00

Sorry there wasn’t much information to be found which is not surprising with the number of small business that got into this industry in the development of our country.

For your insurance purposes I really think the gun would be in the $700.00 to $825.00 retail price range. I would take several pictures for your safety deposit box along with any “rubbings” of the name, insurance claim folks like that.

I’ll keep an eye out for additional information to help you with your research on this weapon.Thank you for the chance to share your experiences in the hobby and looking at your guns.

Yours truly,

__________________________​

Always end your research with positive remarks making the owner aware that you have tried to meet his wants. :applause:

 

[jimmy82]

Very interesting topic. I'm curious however, what precipitated this post?

 

[Mike Brooks]

I have worked on and off for Rock Island auction Co.. I have found out several very important things while working there. CONDITION means everything, and condition is very difficult to asses unless you have the gun in hand. Also, gun prices are rising rapidly on high end stuff, shockingly so, making estimates of actual worth extremely difficult to make.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

An acquaintance of mine was named executor of unc. willies est. She got his gun collection appraised, by a local auctioneer who also wanted the job to sell them. She never came to see me until after a dozen guns had been sold by the auctioneer. They were scheduled to be sold in lots of 12 over a few months, because the auctioneer didn't want to "flood the market." She brought the list of what had been sold and I gasped. An original Pachmayr Schuetzen circa 1890, rifle in what looked to be great shape sold for $240.00 at this jerks Auction house. It should have been more like $2400. (Emil Pachmayr was a world champion 200 meter offhand shooter around 1910.) There were pictures of the Emil with trophies at world class matches, which the auctioneer called junk. The reloading equipment for the gun was separated to be sold later. One rifle was labeled Stevens single shot with detachable muzzle, sold for $412.50. Again the reloading stuff for the rifle was taken out of the case to be sold with the other reloading equipment, which he already had. (God was it a Steven's Pope?) I called another auctioneer regionally known for his gun sales and we advertised in several antique firearms publications. Guns the first guy referred to9 as old single shot 22's, worth $150 each, were Anschutz, and Martini, even a Winchester 52 with a fecker scope, target rifles with Unertl scopes, hook butt plates and palms rests. Each of them brought in excess of $1,200. She got a whopping two grand for the first batch of 12 rifles from the first auctioneer and over $40,000 for the sales of the rest of them from the second auction house. Some of the reloading equipment disappeared and we couldn't get it back from the first guy. All he saw was the possibility of commissions for selling guns and made no effort to research the guns or maximize the return (and his commissions) Well for irregularities in book keeping,he has since lost his auctioneering license.

Folks come to me sometimes asking about guns. I rarely give a value. (maybe for a CVA kit gun) If you have proof that a gun belonged to somebody famous or was used in a historical event, it suddenly becomes a whole nuther ball game.

That Emil Pachmayr gun showed up at gun show at a nearby club. I got it for $100.00. The guy could not find shells for it so he didn't want it anymore.

 

I have worked on and off for Rock Island auction Co.. I have found out several very important things while working there. CONDITION means everything, and condition is very difficult to asses unless you have the gun in hand. Also, gun prices are rising rapidly on high end stuff, shockingly so, making estimates of actual worth extremely difficult to make.

The reason for this post is answering multiple emails about researching one's firearm and could I give an example of what we try to provide. The "key words" here are "try to provide" that's the hard part.

****************************​

As many of you know I work for Cabelas in the Gun Library, I get all the questions on the flint and percussion guns. See and handle the those arms, appraise values on the them and so on. You are correct on the rising costs, what was $2,000 last year is now $2,500 and up.

Much of rising costs started when the stock market took a dump, some investors told their folks to invest in good quality firearms. Can you believe that, makes us happy and should make you too - your antique guns have just increased in value.

It's not unusual to have someone (men & women both) come in and walk out with $75,000 and up in nice antique guns.

The highest amount spent that I have seen was an older guy dressed in bib coveralls came in started looking around then left. A few minutes later our store manager came in with this gentleman and we were told to give him anything he wanted.

The show started he picked a dozen high dollar Winchesters lever guns, then asked me "What do you like". WOW a dream come true (for a few minutes anyway, they're his not mine). We picked out a half dozen very nice flinters (rifles & pistols). Then did the same with percussion guns. Bottom line he spent $210,000.00 and change leaving very happy. Damn we aren't on commission. :cursing:

NOTE:
As we would lay the guns out for packing we would pull the records and research information from a file on each weapon. This adds to the value of the firearm. Any additional information in previous ownership, events used in, purchase price, etc. really helps to get the most for the gun. Hope this answers your questions, thanks for asking.

 

zimmerstutzen

This happens daily because we trust people and DO NOT do our research on the folks providing this service. I would have asked questions, wanted referrals, called the BBB and anything else I could think of before giving them my wares. One of the biggest shocks is what do they charge for their service? Some get as high as 60% of the selling value, Internet auctions may have fees for listing as well as purchasing items. Ask questions you do not need any unexpected charges added on. Granted they need to make a profit but not all of it on my stuff. :cursing: