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Bear Hunting
- Thread starter musketman
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
I car killed my black bear this year. He had been hitting my bait station and prowling around my barn and critters for weeks prior to legal season, then less than a week before he was to fall prey to my "best laid plans", he engaged in a game of chicken with a vehicle not a 1/4 mile from my house. He lost!! I lost!! The driver took the head and claws.
Guest
Musketman,
I asked my dad years ago about hunting black bear with a .45 PRB and he said it would be Ok but you should carry a file.
Cody
I asked my dad years ago about hunting black bear with a .45 PRB and he said it would be Ok but you should carry a file.
Cody
I think the minimum would be a .50 although I would want a .54 with 90 grains of FFg behind the ball.
Bears can be taken fairly easily if the ball passes between the ribs into the heart/lung area BUT they have pritty stout ribs, a tough hide and a lot of fat in the late fall.
If you don't kill it right off they can develop a nasty disposition after being shot and the idea of 350+ pound Black Bear chewing on my butt doesn't excite me.
Bears can be taken fairly easily if the ball passes between the ribs into the heart/lung area BUT they have pritty stout ribs, a tough hide and a lot of fat in the late fall.
If you don't kill it right off they can develop a nasty disposition after being shot and the idea of 350+ pound Black Bear chewing on my butt doesn't excite me.
Guest
.50 cal inline, 150g 777 powder, 300+g jacketed 45cal bullet in a plastic "patch". That should do the trick.
I've taken about 10 black bears (in various color phases) over the years. By sheer coincidence none were ever taken with a muzzle loader.
I would usually do a spring hunt and if, when I went out, it was pouring down rain I would take something other than a muzzle loader. Or in some instances I would be 'experimenting' with something new. (i.e. 35 Whelen)
Except for the Whelen (.35 caliber with 250 grain bullet) and a military '03 Springfield (.30 caliber with 220 grain bullet) all the rest were taken with black powder single shot cartridges. (i.e. .45-70, .40-65, .45-90) The bullets were always my own cast bullets and, as with the .40-65, from a mould I made myself.
One really large black bear was taken with a .22 handgun but it was not my original intention. And like the .35 Whelen, was almost forced upon me.
Black bears are not hard to kill when shot in the 'boiler room'. To my knowledge, the only bears that are difficult to kill are the Northern bears...Griz, Brown, Kodiac, Polar, etc. I don't consider myself an expert by any means, but hunting bears, to me, is no more difficult than getting a good Mule Deer buck. Elk, on the other hand, can be very difficult with the ranges at which we (MLs) normally hunt.
Without trying to offend anyone, I would say that inline hunting with a bullet, whether you use black powder or not, is not the same as hunting with a roundball and iron sights . The fact that you are using black powder instead of smokeless is meaningless. A .50 caliber black powder load, using a bullet (or sabotted bullet), and a scope is no different (for the first 100 yards) than a .308 Winchester.
But the fact is that I've killed a few black bear, eaten all of the meat, and used the claws, the hide and the lower jaw. They were not difficult to kill or to sneak up on. I cannot count the number of black bear that I have enjoyed a 'mutual surprise' with to the near fatal heart attack of both. Northern bears are another proposition and I leave someone else to give an opinion of those.
I stopped hunting Black Bears about 14 years ago and would only resume now with a muzzle loader. As a matter of fact I just might try it with my smoothbore but they just aren't that much of a challenge unless you hold out for record book size.
Voyageur
I would usually do a spring hunt and if, when I went out, it was pouring down rain I would take something other than a muzzle loader. Or in some instances I would be 'experimenting' with something new. (i.e. 35 Whelen)
Except for the Whelen (.35 caliber with 250 grain bullet) and a military '03 Springfield (.30 caliber with 220 grain bullet) all the rest were taken with black powder single shot cartridges. (i.e. .45-70, .40-65, .45-90) The bullets were always my own cast bullets and, as with the .40-65, from a mould I made myself.
One really large black bear was taken with a .22 handgun but it was not my original intention. And like the .35 Whelen, was almost forced upon me.
Black bears are not hard to kill when shot in the 'boiler room'. To my knowledge, the only bears that are difficult to kill are the Northern bears...Griz, Brown, Kodiac, Polar, etc. I don't consider myself an expert by any means, but hunting bears, to me, is no more difficult than getting a good Mule Deer buck. Elk, on the other hand, can be very difficult with the ranges at which we (MLs) normally hunt.
Without trying to offend anyone, I would say that inline hunting with a bullet, whether you use black powder or not, is not the same as hunting with a roundball and iron sights . The fact that you are using black powder instead of smokeless is meaningless. A .50 caliber black powder load, using a bullet (or sabotted bullet), and a scope is no different (for the first 100 yards) than a .308 Winchester.
But the fact is that I've killed a few black bear, eaten all of the meat, and used the claws, the hide and the lower jaw. They were not difficult to kill or to sneak up on. I cannot count the number of black bear that I have enjoyed a 'mutual surprise' with to the near fatal heart attack of both. Northern bears are another proposition and I leave someone else to give an opinion of those.
I stopped hunting Black Bears about 14 years ago and would only resume now with a muzzle loader. As a matter of fact I just might try it with my smoothbore but they just aren't that much of a challenge unless you hold out for record book size.
Voyageur
Guest
Roundball, I sure hope your kidding about the head shot.
Voyageur, what do you use the lower jaw for? My dad used the lower jaw for a knife handle once but that's the only time I recall ever seeing it used. We have lots of bears up here. I usually shoot a couple per year to fill the freezer so come fall, I can be very fussy about the deer I shoot because I don't need the meat. I haven't shot a deer in years. I don't hunt bears. Rather they are shot at bee locations as pest control. Only shot one with a ML. BTW, We also keep the pecker bone. My dad used to have the front of his hat folded up and held by two pecker bones crossed. They tended to go missing so we got in the habit of keeping them for back-up.
Cody
Voyageur, what do you use the lower jaw for? My dad used the lower jaw for a knife handle once but that's the only time I recall ever seeing it used. We have lots of bears up here. I usually shoot a couple per year to fill the freezer so come fall, I can be very fussy about the deer I shoot because I don't need the meat. I haven't shot a deer in years. I don't hunt bears. Rather they are shot at bee locations as pest control. Only shot one with a ML. BTW, We also keep the pecker bone. My dad used to have the front of his hat folded up and held by two pecker bones crossed. They tended to go missing so we got in the habit of keeping them for back-up.
Cody
Just what you said Cody. I use them to create 'Medicine Dags'. Track of the Wolf, Dixie and a few others carry the 'Dag' blades.
I forgot to mention one of the most important products you can get off a bear. You have to heat the fat REAL slow at a REALLY low heat for a LONG time. What you get is almost crystal clear patch lubricant. If you heat it too hot or too quickly it simply becomes lard that is excellent to cook with and works well on your boots for 'waterproofing'.
Voyageur
I forgot to mention one of the most important products you can get off a bear. You have to heat the fat REAL slow at a REALLY low heat for a LONG time. What you get is almost crystal clear patch lubricant. If you heat it too hot or too quickly it simply becomes lard that is excellent to cook with and works well on your boots for 'waterproofing'.
Voyageur
I've shot seven black bear; 4 with a .50 PRB, 2 with a wheel bow and one with a Smith .45 Colt. All went down easy. The one with the .45 Colt was out of season, but for a good reason. He didn't like me walking up on his boisenberry bush and was bound and determined to defend it even though I wasn't argueing with him. Six shots at 10 ft. from the stomach to the chest in the blink of an eye. Luckily one made it through and hit the spine. Me and the DNR game warden came to an understanding about him, he got half the meat and I got the rest. Then we hunted predators over the entrails for the next two days. Wasn't anything he could do about it any how, it happened on the base firing range impact area and I was the base game warden. I only reported it as a courtesy. Head shots are something I would never think of doing. I understand they get awful mean when they get that kind of a headache. The big northerns are another story, I took three Griz in NWT with a .50 in my younger and dumber days. Wouldn't even consider it now that I've grown a little smarts. Good luck if you go for them, the meat is great. Take care, Rick.
Here's a great story that we've probably all read. I would guess the rifle was a .52 to .54 calibre.
"I descended the Mountain and entered the Camp. On the 27th of April we travelled down the West side of the Lake to the outlet into Bear river. here we found about 300 Lodges of Snake Indians: we encamped at the village and staid 3 days, in the meantime our uppers were engaged hunting Beaver in the river and small streams We then crossed the river and ascended a branch called Thoma's Fork in a north direction about 10 Mls. the next day we started across the Mountain in a North direction and after travelling about 5 Mls. we discovered a large Grizzly Bear about 200 yards ahead of us: one of our hunters approached and shot him dead on the spot. We all rode up and dismounted to butcher him: he was an enormous animal a hideous brute a savage looking beast. On removing the skin we found the fat on his back measured six inches deep. He had probably not left his winter quarters more than 2 hours as we saw his tracks on the snow where he had just left the thick forest of pines on the side of the Mountain. We put the meat on our pack animals and travelled up the Mountain about 5 miles and encamped. The next morning we started about 2 hours before day and crossed the Mountain on the snow which was frozen hard enough to bear our animals and at 10 oclk AM we found ourselves travelling down a beautiful green vale which led us to the Valley on Salt River where we encamped about 2 oclk P.M "
"I descended the Mountain and entered the Camp. On the 27th of April we travelled down the West side of the Lake to the outlet into Bear river. here we found about 300 Lodges of Snake Indians: we encamped at the village and staid 3 days, in the meantime our uppers were engaged hunting Beaver in the river and small streams We then crossed the river and ascended a branch called Thoma's Fork in a north direction about 10 Mls. the next day we started across the Mountain in a North direction and after travelling about 5 Mls. we discovered a large Grizzly Bear about 200 yards ahead of us: one of our hunters approached and shot him dead on the spot. We all rode up and dismounted to butcher him: he was an enormous animal a hideous brute a savage looking beast. On removing the skin we found the fat on his back measured six inches deep. He had probably not left his winter quarters more than 2 hours as we saw his tracks on the snow where he had just left the thick forest of pines on the side of the Mountain. We put the meat on our pack animals and travelled up the Mountain about 5 miles and encamped. The next morning we started about 2 hours before day and crossed the Mountain on the snow which was frozen hard enough to bear our animals and at 10 oclk AM we found ourselves travelling down a beautiful green vale which led us to the Valley on Salt River where we encamped about 2 oclk P.M "
Guest
Voyageur,
Your right about the bear grease. Makes the BEST pastries and buns. For bread and cookies, use 1/2 of what the recipe calls for. I still have a 2 gal. bucket full. I've never used it for patch lube but I treat my cushion wads for my shotgun with it and it works great. Can shoot all day and the last shot loads just as easily as the first. I also use it on all my leather. Used it on my horses hooves to prevent splitting but the horse got aggrivated by the dog following him around licking his hooves.
Cody
Your right about the bear grease. Makes the BEST pastries and buns. For bread and cookies, use 1/2 of what the recipe calls for. I still have a 2 gal. bucket full. I've never used it for patch lube but I treat my cushion wads for my shotgun with it and it works great. Can shoot all day and the last shot loads just as easily as the first. I also use it on all my leather. Used it on my horses hooves to prevent splitting but the horse got aggrivated by the dog following him around licking his hooves.
Cody
Cody, I'm puzzled about your comment regarding a head shot on a bear...let me say right up front I've never shot a bear but I've hunted all my life and have almost always filled all my deer tags every year for decades, saying that only to let you know I'm not a greenhorn to hunting, ballistics, or the capability of a variety of rifles and muzzleloaders.
A bear is a mammal not much different than a deer, and have no doubts a 180grn ball in the ear at 30-40yds would get the job done...I've shot deer in the head at those distances, the results aren't pretty, but the outcome is never in question...with all that I've read over the years about bears & bear hunting I never came away with the impression that they had any unusually supernaturally strong skull, etc...help?
A bear is a mammal not much different than a deer, and have no doubts a 180grn ball in the ear at 30-40yds would get the job done...I've shot deer in the head at those distances, the results aren't pretty, but the outcome is never in question...with all that I've read over the years about bears & bear hunting I never came away with the impression that they had any unusually supernaturally strong skull, etc...help?
Guest
Haggis...if that's from the book I think it's from, I lived in that "Valley of the Salt River" in Western Wyoming. Nice place. It's now called Star Valley.
Vic
Vic
Guest
Roundball,
Bears aren't any harder to kill than anything else and a shot to the ear will certainly do the job. I've just never been a fan of head shots. The brain is only the size of a fist more or less be it bear, deer, elk whatever. That's about a 3" kill zone. Not a very big target now if you miss, you could very well hit the spine which is just as good. Unfortunatly, if you miss the other way, you hit the nose or jaw. I've seen deer running around with their lower jaw shot off by a missplaced head shot. An animal with it's nose/jaw shot off will run for miles and will not bed. The hunter has little chance if any to ever catch up to it and the animal is sentenced to death by starvation. Behind the shoulder offers an 8" kill zone. Misplace a shot behind the shoulder, and the animal is still going to run, however after several minutes running will start to hurt and the animal will bed. The hunter has a chance to catch up and put the animal down. Anyway, I'm rambling. There are a million different scenarios, I just think that a head shot is a poor percentage shot and that the consequences of being off are far too severe for the animal.
Cody
P.S. Not everybody limits their head shots to 30-40 yards
Bears aren't any harder to kill than anything else and a shot to the ear will certainly do the job. I've just never been a fan of head shots. The brain is only the size of a fist more or less be it bear, deer, elk whatever. That's about a 3" kill zone. Not a very big target now if you miss, you could very well hit the spine which is just as good. Unfortunatly, if you miss the other way, you hit the nose or jaw. I've seen deer running around with their lower jaw shot off by a missplaced head shot. An animal with it's nose/jaw shot off will run for miles and will not bed. The hunter has little chance if any to ever catch up to it and the animal is sentenced to death by starvation. Behind the shoulder offers an 8" kill zone. Misplace a shot behind the shoulder, and the animal is still going to run, however after several minutes running will start to hurt and the animal will bed. The hunter has a chance to catch up and put the animal down. Anyway, I'm rambling. There are a million different scenarios, I just think that a head shot is a poor percentage shot and that the consequences of being off are far too severe for the animal.
Cody
P.S. Not everybody limits their head shots to 30-40 yards
Guest
Musketman,
In answer to your original question, I have only shot 1 bear with a ML so I have no real expierience to share. However, this might help. A 2-3 year old black bear is 125-200 LBS. Their ribs are very small and easy to break (the brisket is still cartiladge and can be cut with a knife) Same as shooting a young deer. 4-5 year old will be 200-300 lbs. Be like shooting a big buck. Anything over 5years of age would require the stopping power you would employ for an elk. If you are shooting from a tree stand, remember that a fall bear will have 5-6" of fat high on the carcass to go through. It's only an inch or two on the ribcage so it's not a big consideration shooting broadside. I've never hunted from a stand so maybe you don't shoot much higher on the body I don't know. I'm not sure what book Haggis was quoting from but 6 inches of fat on an April bear?????? The most fat I've ever seen on a spring bear is maybe an inch but usually zero. If you don't need the grease, I'ld recommend a spring bear. They are way easier to skin without the fat, the claws are longer and sharper (they haven't been walking on them for 6 monthes) and the hair is longer. Late spring/early summer aint so good if you want the hide because they rub the hair off in spots. The meat is great spring or fall. If you get a fall bear, you don't have to be concerned about getting all the fat off. Bears have fat like pork or beef and will not make the meat gamey.
Cody
In answer to your original question, I have only shot 1 bear with a ML so I have no real expierience to share. However, this might help. A 2-3 year old black bear is 125-200 LBS. Their ribs are very small and easy to break (the brisket is still cartiladge and can be cut with a knife) Same as shooting a young deer. 4-5 year old will be 200-300 lbs. Be like shooting a big buck. Anything over 5years of age would require the stopping power you would employ for an elk. If you are shooting from a tree stand, remember that a fall bear will have 5-6" of fat high on the carcass to go through. It's only an inch or two on the ribcage so it's not a big consideration shooting broadside. I've never hunted from a stand so maybe you don't shoot much higher on the body I don't know. I'm not sure what book Haggis was quoting from but 6 inches of fat on an April bear?????? The most fat I've ever seen on a spring bear is maybe an inch but usually zero. If you don't need the grease, I'ld recommend a spring bear. They are way easier to skin without the fat, the claws are longer and sharper (they haven't been walking on them for 6 monthes) and the hair is longer. Late spring/early summer aint so good if you want the hide because they rub the hair off in spots. The meat is great spring or fall. If you get a fall bear, you don't have to be concerned about getting all the fat off. Bears have fat like pork or beef and will not make the meat gamey.
Cody
OK...the bear I shot with a .22 handgun...it went like this:
I had been setting up a spike camp in the Beaverhead and was only carrying a Browning Challenger (first issue). My partner and I were walking back to our lower camp when I saw a Black Bear (in a brown phase) working over a stump up the side of a hill. He weas bent over and I could not make out if he was a Griz or not so I got down on all fours and and started crawling up through the sage to get a better look. I rose up to see over the sage at what I thought was about 75 yards. What I did not know was that he had left off his feeding and was walking down the hill towards me.
When I rose up, he rose up and we stood facing each other at about 15 yards. I whipped out my .22 handgun and asked my partner if he thought I should shoot or not. He replied that he didn't care what I did since he was getting the heck out of there. With that he did indeed move off down the hill.
The bear dropped down on all fours and 'whuffed' at me. Those of you that have hunted bear will recognize this as typical. I aimed for between his eyes and, to my discredit, shot! He bit at his shoulder, spun and ran up the hill. I was suspicious of his intentions and, instead, moved rapidly around the side of the hill and tried to pick up his tracks on the far side. No tracks! So I carefully hunted up the far side of the hill.
There he was at the crest of the hill, lying down and watching his back trail. I crept up behind to about 7 yards and shot him in the back of the head! He wilted and I moved forward to see if he was dead. Dead he was and foolish was I to take such a chance.
When I field dressed him I found his left shoulder all 'blood shot' which I thought strange. No .22 would produce that result. But it turned out that I had just barely missed his skull to the right when I shot. As you may or may not know, a bear on all fours holds his head level with his nose pointed right at you, which gives an extreme angle to his forehead and lets most bullets ricochet off. The .22 bullet, in missing his skull, had entered the top of his shoulder near his neck and went straight through to the heart. What are the odds? The blood had leaked out of his heart into his shoulder producing the 'blood shot' shoulder. He was dying when I shot him in the back of his head. The .22 easily penetrated his brain. I have a picture of the hide, with myself standing holding the Browning, taken a couple of hours later.
Cody is absolutely correct. A standard Black Bear is not more difficult to kill than anything else it's size.
Voyageur
I had been setting up a spike camp in the Beaverhead and was only carrying a Browning Challenger (first issue). My partner and I were walking back to our lower camp when I saw a Black Bear (in a brown phase) working over a stump up the side of a hill. He weas bent over and I could not make out if he was a Griz or not so I got down on all fours and and started crawling up through the sage to get a better look. I rose up to see over the sage at what I thought was about 75 yards. What I did not know was that he had left off his feeding and was walking down the hill towards me.
When I rose up, he rose up and we stood facing each other at about 15 yards. I whipped out my .22 handgun and asked my partner if he thought I should shoot or not. He replied that he didn't care what I did since he was getting the heck out of there. With that he did indeed move off down the hill.
The bear dropped down on all fours and 'whuffed' at me. Those of you that have hunted bear will recognize this as typical. I aimed for between his eyes and, to my discredit, shot! He bit at his shoulder, spun and ran up the hill. I was suspicious of his intentions and, instead, moved rapidly around the side of the hill and tried to pick up his tracks on the far side. No tracks! So I carefully hunted up the far side of the hill.
There he was at the crest of the hill, lying down and watching his back trail. I crept up behind to about 7 yards and shot him in the back of the head! He wilted and I moved forward to see if he was dead. Dead he was and foolish was I to take such a chance.
When I field dressed him I found his left shoulder all 'blood shot' which I thought strange. No .22 would produce that result. But it turned out that I had just barely missed his skull to the right when I shot. As you may or may not know, a bear on all fours holds his head level with his nose pointed right at you, which gives an extreme angle to his forehead and lets most bullets ricochet off. The .22 bullet, in missing his skull, had entered the top of his shoulder near his neck and went straight through to the heart. What are the odds? The blood had leaked out of his heart into his shoulder producing the 'blood shot' shoulder. He was dying when I shot him in the back of his head. The .22 easily penetrated his brain. I have a picture of the hide, with myself standing holding the Browning, taken a couple of hours later.
Cody is absolutely correct. A standard Black Bear is not more difficult to kill than anything else it's size.
Voyageur
Haggis, what is this quote from?
Greg
quote:Originally posted by Haggis:
Here's a great story that we've probably all read. I would guess the rifle was a .52 to .54 calibre.
"I descended the Mountain and entered the Camp. On the 27th of April we travelled down the West side of the Lake to the outlet into Bear river. here we found about 300 Lodges of Snake Indians: we encamped at the village and staid 3 days, in the meantime our uppers were engaged hunting Beaver in the river and small streams We then crossed the river and ascended a branch called Thoma's Fork in a north direction about 10 Mls. the next day we started across the Mountain in a North direction and after travelling about 5 Mls. we discovered a large Grizzly Bear about 200 yards ahead of us: one of our hunters approached and shot him dead on the spot. We all rode up and dismounted to butcher him: he was an enormous animal a hideous brute a savage looking beast. On removing the skin we found the fat on his back measured six inches deep. He had probably not left his winter quarters more than 2 hours as we saw his tracks on the snow where he had just left the thick forest of pines on the side of the Mountain. We put the meat on our pack animals and travelled up the Mountain about 5 miles and encamped. The next morning we started about 2 hours before day and crossed the Mountain on the snow which was frozen hard enough to bear our animals and at 10 oclk AM we found ourselves travelling down a beautiful green vale which led us to the Valley on Salt River where we encamped about 2 oclk P.M "
Greg
quote:Originally posted by Haggis:
Here's a great story that we've probably all read. I would guess the rifle was a .52 to .54 calibre.
"I descended the Mountain and entered the Camp. On the 27th of April we travelled down the West side of the Lake to the outlet into Bear river. here we found about 300 Lodges of Snake Indians: we encamped at the village and staid 3 days, in the meantime our uppers were engaged hunting Beaver in the river and small streams We then crossed the river and ascended a branch called Thoma's Fork in a north direction about 10 Mls. the next day we started across the Mountain in a North direction and after travelling about 5 Mls. we discovered a large Grizzly Bear about 200 yards ahead of us: one of our hunters approached and shot him dead on the spot. We all rode up and dismounted to butcher him: he was an enormous animal a hideous brute a savage looking beast. On removing the skin we found the fat on his back measured six inches deep. He had probably not left his winter quarters more than 2 hours as we saw his tracks on the snow where he had just left the thick forest of pines on the side of the Mountain. We put the meat on our pack animals and travelled up the Mountain about 5 miles and encamped. The next morning we started about 2 hours before day and crossed the Mountain on the snow which was frozen hard enough to bear our animals and at 10 oclk AM we found ourselves travelling down a beautiful green vale which led us to the Valley on Salt River where we encamped about 2 oclk P.M "
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