I got my Pecatonica fusil together and wanted to try it out. I have always shot my Northwest trade gun like a rifle, with patched round ball. I figured my trade gun load of .600 round ball, .018 pillow ticking lubed with Ballistol and 80 grains of fffg would be a good place to start. The patched ball would not even begin to start, so I checked a bare ball and it would not even freely drop down the barrel. I wanted to give it a try so I decided to shoot a bare ball. It needed a gentle push of the ramrod to load. Accuracy really wasn't too bad, five shots in about a six inch group at 35 yards. Now, rather than getting different size balls I am thinking of trying a lubed round ball as I do in my Model 1842 Springfield, or maybe a bare ball with a wad. The fusil worked really well, one misfire but I had a faulty flint. I may not have time to work up a load for some time but it looks promising!
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bareballin it
- Thread starter Trot
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I would say go ahead and shot it without the patch. I have one smoothbore that shoots very well that way. I just drop the powder down the tube, then drop the ball down and follow with a wad (Leaves/grass/hornet's nest/paper/cloth/etc.). It shoots as well as I would like, loads fast and cleans up pretty easy. I have heard some people express the idea that it may leave alot of lead behind in the barrel but I havn't found that to be true. The only down side I have found to shooting this way is that your gun will tend to pick up a bit more (actually lots more) fouling in the barrel and will need to be swabbed out a bit sooner than it would otherwise. Below is a picture of a group I shot that way a little over a week ago. Distance was about 25 yards. There are 10 shots on that target.
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paulvallandigham
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You obviously just accepted whatever statements were told you about the caliber of the gun, without every actually measuring the bore!
Please, from now on, every time you have a new gun, MEASURE the bore diameter with Calipers, and if you have a rifle, measure both the bore and groove diameters. Also, always check that diameter of the balls you buy, or cast, to see EXACTLY what size they are. The .600 Cal. ball I bought from Track of the Wolf did measure .600, but I did have some variation in weight. The cast balls my brother provides also measure .600, but he sorts them by weight for me.
The same attention to detail has to given to patches. YOU HAVE TO MEASURE the patch thickness, and not rely on what it says on a package. I once bought two strips of patching from the same vender marked the same size, and -- YEP-- They were different. One was as represented, while the other was a few thousandth's different. Its not the vender's fault, but it is the fault of the manufacturer. Someone in my club was looking for some patching, and we found the stuff I had and could not use was just what he wanted. I got my money back that way.
If you buy fabric, you need to wash it and dry it a couple of times to remove all the sizing in it(mostly atarches) and shrink the fabric before taking a final measurement. Some fabric is pre-washed and pre-shrunk, but test a sample before you buy a life-time supply!
If you are going to shoot a bare ball, you will have steaks of lead to deal with in the barrel, and as it builds, accuracy will deterriorate. At the very least, you should use a good overpowder card wad to seal the gas behind the ball so you don't have gas cutting in addition to rubbing on the barrel to deal with. If you lube the barrel after seating the ball on the wad, and covering it with an Over Shot card, or two to hold it in place, try lubing the barrel with a lubed cleaning patch( not a prelubed ball patch) That will help reduce the amount of lead that is rubbed off on the barrel, leave your ball mostly round when it leaves the muzzle, and should give you better accuracy. Another way is to use a pre-lubed wool wad between the overpowder wad, and the ball, but that will soften fouling, but will not do anything about reducing the amount of leading in the barrel. I know its another loading step, but this is a single shot flintlock, not a .45 auto. Accept it. Enjoy the fact that you can't rapid fire the gun, that you have to get close, and that hitting any game with that huge ball is going to put meat on the table.
Please, from now on, every time you have a new gun, MEASURE the bore diameter with Calipers, and if you have a rifle, measure both the bore and groove diameters. Also, always check that diameter of the balls you buy, or cast, to see EXACTLY what size they are. The .600 Cal. ball I bought from Track of the Wolf did measure .600, but I did have some variation in weight. The cast balls my brother provides also measure .600, but he sorts them by weight for me.
The same attention to detail has to given to patches. YOU HAVE TO MEASURE the patch thickness, and not rely on what it says on a package. I once bought two strips of patching from the same vender marked the same size, and -- YEP-- They were different. One was as represented, while the other was a few thousandth's different. Its not the vender's fault, but it is the fault of the manufacturer. Someone in my club was looking for some patching, and we found the stuff I had and could not use was just what he wanted. I got my money back that way.
If you buy fabric, you need to wash it and dry it a couple of times to remove all the sizing in it(mostly atarches) and shrink the fabric before taking a final measurement. Some fabric is pre-washed and pre-shrunk, but test a sample before you buy a life-time supply!
If you are going to shoot a bare ball, you will have steaks of lead to deal with in the barrel, and as it builds, accuracy will deterriorate. At the very least, you should use a good overpowder card wad to seal the gas behind the ball so you don't have gas cutting in addition to rubbing on the barrel to deal with. If you lube the barrel after seating the ball on the wad, and covering it with an Over Shot card, or two to hold it in place, try lubing the barrel with a lubed cleaning patch( not a prelubed ball patch) That will help reduce the amount of lead that is rubbed off on the barrel, leave your ball mostly round when it leaves the muzzle, and should give you better accuracy. Another way is to use a pre-lubed wool wad between the overpowder wad, and the ball, but that will soften fouling, but will not do anything about reducing the amount of leading in the barrel. I know its another loading step, but this is a single shot flintlock, not a .45 auto. Accept it. Enjoy the fact that you can't rapid fire the gun, that you have to get close, and that hitting any game with that huge ball is going to put meat on the table.
I shoot my fusil bare ball quite a lot. Over powder card, thumb seat a well lubed 1/2" fiber wad just below muzzle, then place the .610" ball with sprue down, centered on wad, and shove them home, followed by a thin over shot card.
I am hard put to tell the difference betwixt patched or bare ball accuracy. (but, I am no longer the shot, I once thought I was)
I am hard put to tell the difference betwixt patched or bare ball accuracy. (but, I am no longer the shot, I once thought I was)
Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, I am well aware of variations in bore size, ball and patch material. I have been doing this for some 30 years and to be honest I have drifted away from measuring and weighing everything. I know it is for the best, but it always comes down to trial and error in the end to find the right load. Muzzleloading to me is getting away from all the technology and precision of todays world. All my equipment is as primitive as I can make it, I haven't yet given up Ballistol because the darn stuff works so well for me, but I am getting more primitive all the time and will probably be changing that. Thanks again for the help!
paulvallandigham
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WADR to your search for primitive, you are still mixing apples with oranges. In the colonial, pre-industrial age period, gunsmiths who made guns for civilian use, also made the molds for the correct size ball to be used in those guns. The owners didn't have to measure anything, because it had been done for him by the gunmaker.
Today, you buy the gun from one maker, the mold from another, or the cast balls from a third. If you don't measure, no one else will for you. Even gunmakers today don't make the molds for their guns, Most gunmakers buy their barrels already made, and don't measure the bores either.
With the way you are doing things today, its the blind leading the blind. If you can bend enough to still use ballistol, then you might rethink the idea about measuring the bore, grooves, and balls at home with a dial caliper. No one says its needed in the field in your possibles bag!
Today, you buy the gun from one maker, the mold from another, or the cast balls from a third. If you don't measure, no one else will for you. Even gunmakers today don't make the molds for their guns, Most gunmakers buy their barrels already made, and don't measure the bores either.
With the way you are doing things today, its the blind leading the blind. If you can bend enough to still use ballistol, then you might rethink the idea about measuring the bore, grooves, and balls at home with a dial caliper. No one says its needed in the field in your possibles bag!
Trot,
I use the same load for ball & shot.
I just substitute a .610 ball instead of the shot.
I did this just to keep it simple.
It is a smoothie after all.
If I could eliminate a step and maintain acceptable accuracy -seems OK to me.
I have 2 .62 rifles for when accuracy counts.
The .610's seem to work better than the .60's.
Send me a PM and I will send you some to try.
Good Luck
I use the same load for ball & shot.
I just substitute a .610 ball instead of the shot.
I did this just to keep it simple.
It is a smoothie after all.
If I could eliminate a step and maintain acceptable accuracy -seems OK to me.
I have 2 .62 rifles for when accuracy counts.
The .610's seem to work better than the .60's.
Send me a PM and I will send you some to try.
Good Luck
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