ASM 1851 Navy revolver

[Eutycus]

I recently purchased a black powder revolver second hand from a pawn shop. It's a 44 caliber, brass framed ASM 1851Navy. I think I got fair deal on it as it only cost me $100.00 with the holster. I'm hoping it was taken good care of and not loaded with too hot of charges.It does appear that it was cleaned . I've yet to shoot it but that day is comming. I plan on keeping the loads under 20 grs.(brass!) Do you think round balls from wheel weight lead would be OK? Being second hand I didnt get the manual with it. Any suggestions on the bore size , chamber size and what size nipples. The nipples on the pistol seem to be the factory ones that originally came with the revolver. I also made a press so as not to "stretch" the frame when loading.

 

[hawkeye2]

Wheel weights are pretty hard and could put quite a strain on the loading lever but if you are using a press that shouldn't matter. Once they have been shaved to chamber diameter the hardness won't matter specially if the chambers are smaller than the bore.

 

[Eutycus]

The plan is to melt half wheel weights with half pure lead from old fishing weights. Hopefully I'll get my hands on a round ball mold soon. Are ASMs consistent in the bore. Do you know what size they may be?

 

[Eutycus]

Oh yeah I forgot to ask....what is the thread size on the nipples. I'm guessing 6 × .75 or 6× 1. Parts were hard to get 5 years ago, I can imagine they are next to impossible to obtain now. Before I shell out any money on molds or new nipples I want to know the right sizes.

 

[hawkeye2]

Your best bet is to remove some nipples and have a mechanic or machinist measure them. Some manufacturers have changed sizes over the years and it's darned difficult to tell the difference just by looking without something to compare them with.

 

[Eutycus]

Pretty sure they're metric. Italian, you know?

 

[hawkeye2]

Yes they are metric and probably one of the 2 sizes you quoted but which might be difficult to tell by looking at them. Track of the Wolf has about the best selection avaliable.

 

[Eutycus]

That Track of the Wolf, do they have actual stores or is this an online/catalogue thing?
I'm pretty sure I can make it go bang with the old nipples that I have. What I need is the right sized mold for the round balls. Does TOW also carry those?

 

[Zonie]

Track of the Wolf carries about anything you might want to buy when it comes to muzzleloading and cap & ball guns.

For your .44 caliber pistol you probaby want a .451 or a .454 diameter roundball mold.

Here's a link to the Lee molds sold by TOTW

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1202/2

As I say, TOTW has a LOT of stuff and I'm sure you will enjoy just looking at all the stuff they offer.
They are a very good company that many of us buy things from.

Oh. Here's a link to their Lyman molds. These molds don't come with handles like the Lee molds do so the handles will have to be bought separately unless you have some on hand now.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1203/1

 

[Rat]

I'm not sure about the wheel weight thing, ramming the ball doesn't just shave lead, it also "smooshes" the ball so that it fills out/seals the chamber. You need very soft lead to smoosh. Wheel weights is hard stuff, even cut with soft lead, still not going to smoosh good.

 

[Eutycus]

Wouldn't a press "smoosh" out the ball? Not the rammer located on the revolver but a stationary hand press.

 

[hawkeye2]

The ball can be no larger than the chamber diameter. If you load a slightly oversize ball such that it shaves a ring of lead all the way around then the portion of the ball in contact with the chamber wall is an exact fit and seals. If the chamber mouth is slightly beveled so that it doesn't shave but swages the ball down slightly then the ball is the same diameter as the chamber. I shot my first revolver in '71 and have 20 some and I've won quite a number of matches with them. I have never seen any evidence of a ball being "smooshed" while being loaded and I question if compressing the powder charge wouldn't cushion the force needed (if it's even avaliable using the lever) enough that the ball wouldn't be "smooshed". Anyway obtaining a good seal between the ball and chamber wall is not an issue so long as the ball fits tight enough to need the lever or a press to seat it. I trust you will choose a ball slightly over chamber diameter and you'll never have a problem unless it's the force required to seat a hard ball. BTW, I have seen grip frames bent from excessive pressure loading with the grip resting on a bench.

Disclaimer: I have seen the front of balls deformed somewhat by a poorly matched loading lever end, specially that odd one on Uberti Remingtons.

 

[Eutycus]

I plan on using a press to load the revolver, I have a brass frame.The press that I made may need some altering so that the rammer/seater part fits the ball perfectly. A little more concave maybe? I've watched videos of a cap and ball revolver being loaded and I almost cringe when I see the force being put on the loading lever. Common sense is not that common .anymore!

 

[8 BORE]

Wheel weights work well .flux at least twice before pouring in an ingot mould then flux the melting ingot. Wheel weights are very dirty and greasy.

 

[8 BORE]

I prefer my ASM and Pietta's over the Uberti when it comes to handguns.

 

[Rat]

A ball will smoosh. If you recover a ball that has not been smashed or deformed from hitting something, you will find it is no longer round, but is kind of a round nosed, round based bullet, with a short cylinder section in the middle. This is both from the "bump" when the ball is fired, and the "smoosh" from loading, if it is pressed firmly into the chamber with the rammer. The ball is no longer round when loaded/rammed into the chamber. I may be wrong for sure, but with a hard lead ball, you would not get the additional sealing of the ball smooshing in the cylinder.

I believe, but may again be wrong, and perhaps someone would like to do the test, but if you load a pure lead ball, using firm rammer pressure, then remove the nipple and drive the ball out, you will find that it has smooshed, and will not be round. It will resemble a VERY short round nosed bullet. ??

On another note, the shaving of the ball is not an absolute...neither my Remington Navy or Old Army Colt shave a ring of lead, and have never chain fired. The 1860 did once, which was the ONLY time I ever used 777 in it. I believe that is because the "smoosh" seals the chamber as well as the "shave". And perhaps a smoosh and a shave is the best of both worlds. WIN WIN!! But it requires pure lead. I don't think even a press will smoosh well, with 1/2 wheel weight, or even much less.

 

[Blogman]

I prefer my ASM and Pietta's over the Uberti when it comes to handguns.

My ASM 47 Walker and my two "Babies" (1858 ASMs) are my Pride & Joys.

 

[Gene L]

I buy balls for my pistols. Cheaper than investing in a mold and a pot, and ket's face it, it takes a lot of shooting for me to invest in a mold, handles, a dipper, and a pot.

 

[Eutycus]

I buy balls for my pistols. Cheaper than investing in a mold and a pot, and ket's face it, it takes a lot of shooting for me to invest in a mold, handles, a dipper, and a pot.

You may have something there. It probably would be cheaper just to buy them ready made. Just save the lead for rifle shooting.

 

[Eutycus]

Now to another ASM question . I have read how this model is not up to par with the Pietta or the Uberti as far as metal hardness is concerned. But I've also heard how that is not really true.Does the ASM have a softer
metal than the other Italian repros?. I personally think it takes a back seat to no model in the looks department.