Adjusting Aim for 200 & 300 Yards

[Loyalist Dave]

So Saturday, my son wants to go to a place called "Peacemaker National Training Center" in West VA, and to try out his modern rifles out to 300 yards. It's a father/son birthday outing. I was enamored with modern stuff too at his age, even though I was doing ACW living history too.

So he wanted to know what, if anything, I was going to bring, to shoot steel at 200 and 300 yards....

So, I was thinking I should bring Trudy, my .54 rifle, and a bunch of patches and roundball and powder and flints.

What I'm wondering is..., I used a ballistic calculator, and as my rifle is sighted for 100 yards, my hold-over for 200 yards is 34" on the chart, and ten feet for 300 yards.

According to the graph, if I increase my load and get a MV instead of 1500 fps, 1700 fps, my hold-over goes from 10 feet to 9 feet. So I don't see any advantage of increasing the load.

Does this sound right to folks who have tried shooting targets at those distances?

LD

 

[Tom A Hawk]

I really enjoy long range shooting with all sorts of firearms. With a scoped rifle I might use a hold over method but with iron sighted hand guns and ML rifles I use the elevated front sight method. I don't worry about how many feet of elevation is theoretically required. I hold on target and let a percentage of the front sight blade extend above the rear. With practice, you get a feel for how much blade to raise. At 300 yards however, all bets are off if there is a cross wind.

 

[smo]

LD, from what I remember, back when Jethro ran the monthly shoots on here.

There was a long range contest that ran for almost a full year...

I think it was a man size target at 400 yards or 2’ wide x 4’ tall target at 200..

A few Members shot at the targets, and if I remember correctly your 10’ hold over mark was similar too what was reported then.

Wind drift I think was more a factor than the elevation too figure out.

 

[52Bore]

There’s never been a direct correlation between velocity and accuracy - that I know of.
Shoot your most accurate load.
Elevation is the easiest to determine- you have done so already with your data.
The wind is the most difficult.
Go have fun and hit that gong!

 

[ppg1949]

Way back in the 80's a buddy of mine & I would shoot at empty gallon jugs at 300 yards with scoped 22lr unmentionables. Hold over was about three feet. I loved it because it took a second or so for bullet to reach the target and you could watch for it. I'm thinking a muzzy has about the same velocity of the mentionable and I would start at a three foot hold over and adjust from there. Have fun and let us know your results.

 

[Walkingeagle]

I shot an event one time using only my .50 GPR flint to cap conversion against all the modern stuff. Obviously didn’t place, but held my own! To the point of getting accolades and an applause in fact. This was all free hand on steel targets from 50-350 yds then a single gong at 500. 5 shots were fired at each and believe me they were patient enough to allow me to shoot each stage, although as my own line, lol (start on first line and by the time the last line was through, I finished with them kinda thing). Anyhow did good until 300 yds then guesswork from there. Think I only hit one or two at 300, 350 but also scored a single at 500yds with a fellow spotting for me and helping with impacts. Do not remember holdover amounts, but was much more than my mind could wrap around. 200 yds though wasnt difficult.
Walk

 

[Grenadier1758]

Back when I shot the Muzzle Loading Silhouettes, I used the blade in the slot method for the bears at 200 yards. I needed to use the full front sight in the notch. The tip of the front sight was held on the bear's ear to windward. The ball would hit the bear at the top of the leg. It was easier to hit the bear than the turkey.

 

[William Sublette]

If you got dust, just shoot at a spot you figure to be 10ft above your target.

look for the splash, adjust your hold accordingly.



should be able to do it in 3 shots.


no dust, have your son help you spot for impacts.

 

[rodwha]

“...and ten feet for 300 yards.”

I don’t want to come across as a donkey’s hind end, but

I do think it’s great you’ll be bringing along a BP arm to use though. It will likely draw attention and get surprised looks from many on the closer shots. Who thinks a patched ball can go so far? Not many.

 

[Marinekayak]

Not sure about the hold over but I’ve shot at peacemaker. Im about 45 min away in Virginia. Its an awesome place to shoot. Loyalist Dave im in NOVA. There are a ton of indoor ranges in my area. Im looking for places to shoot BP local. Im not far from winchester but im not into the asw reinacting. I do have a muskettoon and may talk myself into it.

 

[Carbon 6]

Use a spotter Dave, walk it in.

 

[Rifleman1776]

With practice, you get a feel for how much blade to raise.

Tom is partially right. For 300 yards, with many/most ml rifles your sights will be no help at all. To hit the desired target you may have to pick a spot well above (rock, branch, etc.) that. It's a guesswork thing more than target shooting. But can be fun.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Tom is partially right. For 300 yards, with many/most ml rifles your sights will be no help at all. To hit the desired target you may have to pick a spot well above (rock, branch, etc.) that. It's a guesswork thing more than target shooting. But can be fun.

I suppose that would be true is one has a very low profile front sight. My blades however allow for plenty of "Kentucky" elevation adjustment.

 

[Griz44Mag]

OK, here we go.
Some time back a buddy and I decided to go for a 300 yarder.
We set up a 24 x 24 plate, and here are my initial calculations using Ballistic Arc - which were very close to actual on or near the target, everything except windage, which I did a lot of "Kentucky" on to finally get a hit.
On the Pedersoli Ghost sight, that wound up being 10 full turns on the post. (Last 2 threads and past the set screw to hold the post) The load is a 100gr 3f Old Ensford, .535 lead round ball and a .010 mink lubed patch.
First - the chart.

The drop from transonic was detectable for the close to target spotter located downrange.
He reported hearing 2 bangs.

For the holdover calc - 1 mil at 100 yards is 3.6"

At 200 yards that is 7.2" per mil
7.2" * 6.1mils is 43.92" holdover or (3.6')

We did not shoot at 200 yards - so there was no actual impacts observed to compare to chart accuracy.

At 300 yards that is 10.8" per mil
10.8 * 12.6 is 136.08" (or 11.34')

Muzzle Velocity was determined with with a magnetospeed sport.
Weather conditions were determined with a Weathertech blue tooth that feeds directly into the BalisticArc app on an Android. The wind was near dead calm, the small correction shown in the chart is likely due to coriolis at 300 yards. The shooting direction was magnetic North.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

So...., Back from the Range...
Well I shot a good group at 100 yards, but I had to add 5 grains of 3Fg so was shooting 75 grains...for the sights to be back "on" at 100. I think my touch hole may have enlarged over time (no vent liner) so I may be losing a tad more pressure there. My son pointed out that we were at 600 feet above sea level while at home we are 800 feet above sea level. Not sure if that counts or not.

3 shots .530 Hornady swaged round ball with .15 pre-lubed patch, and 75 grains of GOEX 3Fg from a bench with sandbags, "following" wind when shots were made.


Out at 200 yards, mostly with a following wind, which sometimes switched and was 25 mph gusts from left to right, I hit the 8"x8" steel 2 out of five shots. The other three were very close. They hit the berm behind with good elevation just a little right or left. I was lucky in that the windage flag downrange on the berm was just the right height so I could use it to gauge my sights above the steel.

Now at 300 yards, I scared the steel but didn't hit the 26"x26" square. A couple shots were under it about a foot, so if it was 1776 and I was shooting during the AWI, I would've whacked the target in the shins. , and the rest were a bit high. No real reference point for me at 300 yards,...

The angle was right at 200 yards that I could see my son's modern ammo leaving a streak of a vapor trail as it hit the steel, but my son though it odd that he could see the same from my round ball but only half way to the targets at 200 yards. I mentioned that the program showed my round ball should be dropping below supersonic between 90 and 100 yards, so maybe that was it?

The place is a very cool place to shoot, very safety minded, and a great all around facility. My son had an excellent time on this early birthday outing, which was the most important part, eh?

LD

 

[appalichian hunter]

Loyalist Dave, Never shot distance with a muzzle loader 100yds. is max for me. But with the other kind of rifles can hold my own out to 600 yds. The elevation will come in to play as with the temperature, barometric pressure and especially the wind there are gadgets that can tell you all the numbers and even programs that can be down loaded dealing with these issues. Terminal ballistics and weather conditions effecting impact is a science all to its own. The most important thing is to use a person spotting for you, prime example this last Oct. on a antelope hunt I shot my goat at around 250 yards. never thought about using the range finder, my marine corps buddy shot his at 552 yds. as I was ranging and spotting for him, his first shot was at 615 yds. and was just about 6 in. over the animals back as stated I saw the dust splash behind the animal, as were setting the 2nd shot the antelope came right at us thus the 552 yd. shot. I watched the vapor trail in the binos clearly to impact.(the goat was D.R.T.) The best advice I would pass along is practice and then practice some more. We shot all summer long in preparation for the hunt. Also both animals were harvested shooting in the prone position using bipods. as far as I am concerned if you can shoot from a prone position with as much support as you can achieve you greatly enhance your marksmanship. There is something about knowing you can engage a target at long distances that deeply satisfies the inner spirit.

 

[bang]

BP pressure limits especially in front packers is so that an accurate load is way more important than a heavy load. When you get past 125-150 yards targeting is more like a mortar. When you have to start dropping the shot on the target verses the shot being more inline the success rate drops rapidly.

 

[dave951]

Have you tried conicals for distance? PRB ballistic coefficient is horrible and it sheds velocity very quickly compared to a conical.

 

[Art Caputo]

The OP’s drop values are quite close to mine. I hunt and compete wit 22RF and Centerfire rifles at long range. Regardless of whether you are shooting a modern bullet or round ball drops and windage corrections can be accurately calculated with a ballistic calculator of which there are many available in APPS. I have listed one below that was intended for muzzleloader use, but uses the same algorithms as my centerfire/rimfire calculators. For the shorter ranges(25-300 yards) used with a muzzleloader, entries for atmospheric conditions have little to no effect. The critical data is velocity, sight height over the bore center, muzzle velocity, and “Ballistic Coefficient”. BC is a factor for the flight characteristic of the projectile. BCcan be calculated for a round ball with the formula: BC= (round ball weight in gr) divided by(10640 X ball dia.X ball dia.). For a .490 ball/177gr, the BC is .07, for a 530 ball it’s .075.
Enter your values into a following Ballistic calculator...

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=d7e5e584

..you can easily a basic drop and wind dope chart for your muzzle loader. If the drops do not match exactly, you can calibrate by tuning the velocity. For distance increments I will choose 25 yard increments, for wind speed, I will use 10 mph and adjust for more or less wind, ie. Cut the vale in half for 5MPH. Keep in mind that there is no adjustment for a direct tailwind or head wind.

This methodology works superbly whether rimfire, centerfire, or muddle loader....as long as entry’s are valid, For sighting corrections with a muzzleloader much precision is lost with open sights. I will use a raised front blade to 200 yards, and pick an off target object further out(if feasible). Might sound like overkill but with practice and good range estimation, it’s works very well.