Action cover installed on my 1851 Navy .36

[45D]

Well the hole stopping a crack is some what optimistic , especally when I've noted a string of them in metal, plastic and glass attempting to stop a crack. The hole by itself would never be an issue but the cut into the top of the hole for the shield purchase troubles me. A man made crack start !!

Well, that's typically what's taught for cracks in metal ( never seen one start from a hole).
With 100's in use, no failures that I've heard of.
My revolvers in particular use the frame as the stop for the hammer (as opposed to a cap on a nipple). That would obviously prompt a crack moreso than a cushioned blow. My hammer faces don't touch the conversion ring, only the firing pin.
Speaking of, firing pins are typically held in place on the hammer with a pin in a hole drilled in the hammer. (food for thought).

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Well, that's typically what's taught for cracks in metal ( never seen one start from a hole).
With 100's in use, no failures that I've heard of.
My revolvers in particular use the frame as the stop for the hammer (as opposed to a cap on a nipple). That would obviously prompt a crack moreso than a cushioned blow. My hammer faces don't touch the conversion ring, only the firing pin.
Speaking of, firing pins are typically held in place on the hammer with a pin in a hole drilled in the hammer. (food for thought).

Mike

Probably drilled before the case job. The biggest worry for me when case hardening/coloring receivers is war page. It is impossible to completely brace against any of it occurring although usually very slight and is the reason all original guns,( rifles, shotguns and hand gun) required both soft fitters and hard fitters in assembly.
I've not yet lost any parts from cracking but they all have some degree of warpage when they are fit back together.

 

[45D]

That very well could be just show case hardening but they would have to be some what hardened to hold any kind of a sear edge. All original hammers were case hardened in charcoal. Stevens used cyanide case hardening but that looks totally different than charcoal case.

Original hammers were iron not steel so case was needed. I think all "case hardening" from Italy is chemical. I'm sure all the hammers are through hardened. Sometimes stretching the trigger sear is needed to extend the cycle length when setting up 5 shot revolvers that were 6 shot revolvers. Annealing the trigger allows stretching and of course hardening the trigger when finished is necessary. Same with hands.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Original hammers were iron not steel so case was needed. I think all "case hardening" from Italy is chemical. I'm sure all the hammers are through hardened. Sometimes stretching the trigger sear is needed to extend the cycle length when setting up 5 shot revolvers that were 6 shot revolvers. Annealing the trigger allows stretching and of course hardening the trigger when finished is necessary. Same with hands.

Mike

Yeah, that all makes sense ! I have had to make new triggers on occasion that would not hold an edge nor take on any carbon to harden up. One Pietta trigger I Kasenit'ed three times and it never would get any harder. Figure it must have been made of old soup cans or boat anchors.

 

[Ed C.]

I like this mod and have been considering adding it to my revolvers but thinking back since my first percussion revolver over 5 decades ago I can't remember ever having a cap drop into the action and tie up a gun.
I've had them come loose and jamb against the recoil shield many times for a bit but that was easily cleared.
Fouling would be kept out better I would think but then again I've never had action fouling tie up a gun before and as I always break them down for a thorough cleaning after each use it seems a solution in search of an issue for me.
I'm still not comfortable about the hole and slot cut on the front of the hammer body though. Looks like a dandy spot for a stress crack to get started over time and usage .
A cap rake sounds like a reasonable idea but don't you loose the ability to use the safe pins on the cylinder? I have diamond file relieved the burrs on the safe pin notch in the hammer face and this pretty much eliminates cap sucking and safe pin use is still available..
Things to be considered before changes that cannot be easily reversed for the average shooter.

I did mine a little different on my Walker and my 1851 Navy. I did not drill a hole in the hammer. I simply cut a notch and using a low temp solder I soldered the shield in place. I have zero concerns about the hammer cracking and they are inexpensive should a replacement be needed so not a really big or irreversible change. It does a good job sealing off the internals. Packed with grease, eliminating the need for a complete cleaning teardown after each shoot I find myself taking them out more often. Both guns have been to the range several times and so far the fix is holding up just fine.

 

[ernbar]

I installed the covers on all my BP pistols along with packing the frame in synthetic Mobil 1 grease. It’s great keeping cap fragments and junk from going into the frame.
This mod makes one heck of a great difference in reliability and easy of cleaning.
Irwin Cobalt tipped bits easily bores thru these hammers for the roll pin hole. Like Mike said, no crack will form.

 

[Tom Wall (Sheriff)]

I don’t think it will weaken the hammer and cause cracking. There is no pressure exerted on the action cover, it’s completely passive. The hammer steel is pretty rugged and not hardened at all that I could see, at least in that area. The hole is very small. And no the cap rake still keeps the ability to use the safety pins. You don’t fill the hammer slot at all, you actually deepen it and lengthen it and has no effect at all on the pins. The gun I did this on is the 1862 Colt pocket police. That one and the 1849 are notorious for pulling and dropping caps into the action. They can be so bad that one gentleman I read would take one shot, the gun would jam up, he would take it apart clean it out, reassemble, take another shot, jam up again, take it apart etc… I don’t have that kind of patience! I did those mods, plus slixshot nipples and haven’t even fired it yet. I have not found really anybody that has not has issues with those particular guns so I am kind of “nipping it in the bud”as folks used to say! If your gun is working don’t bother, although the action cover is still nice for keeping all kinds of debris out of your action.

Can you post a photo ? Thanks

 

[ernbar]

Can you post a photo ? Thanks

My Dragoon with the cover and Mobil 1 grease.

 

[1stnamebassist]

Best I have! The cap post I made from an old jigsaw blade. The last one shows the hammer slot I had to cut for cap post clearance. The hammer was terrible when I got the gun. The casting was rough and one corner of the slot was chipped out. I have another hammer on hand in case this one didn’t work, but the caps still fire so I’ll use it for now.

 

[M. De Land]

Hey buddy!! Meant to write you last night. The screws can be hardened slightly, wedges can be hardened pretty good if quenched in water (mine hold up well with what I put them through!!)
The screws in revolvers I receive are usually upset some to "Holy Cow" (except for new of course) so I heat treat them (quenched in oil, water would be better but know that they can crack. I can't/won't source screws I crack so oil it is!!) and then "clean them up" ( yes, new ones too), polish them and then fire blue them. The "fire blued screws" have become a sort of "trademark" thing so that's always done except for 2nd Gen Colt's and then it's an option ( since they're really collectibles). My personal revolvers have maintained their shape and color for the most part . . . ditto for any that have been back for upgrades.

I am great !!!! Thanks for asking!!!

Mike

Mike, have you ever tried any Nitre/blue finished screw heads? A friend of mine did that to all the screw heads in a Rolling block rifle he had and the pale blue finish looked really unique with the color cased receiver. I don't know how durable it is but the color and finish he did really stood out and was most pleasing in a subtle fashion.

 

[M. De Land]

Best I have! The cap post I made from an old jigsaw blade. The last one shows the hammer slot I had to cut for cap post clearance. The hammer was terrible when I got the gun. The casting was rough and one corner of the slot was chipped out. I have another hammer on hand in case this one didn’t work, but the caps still fire so I’ll use it for now.

The trouble I have with the cap post is I can see how the notch in the hammer face might have to be adjusted for clearance ( void in the pin slot casting corner) and even from the factory an un altered notch has little surface area actually impacting the cap when firing so wouldn't want to make it any bigger.
I like the jig saw blade idea and will go with that if I decide on this mod.They are very tough and thin ! Thanks for the pictures.

 

[1stnamebassist]

The trouble I have with the cap post is I can see how the notch in the hammer face might have to be adjusted for clearance ( void in the pin slot casting corner) and even from the factory an un altered notch has little surface area actually impacting the cap when firing so wouldn't want to make it any bigger.
I like the jig saw blade idea and will go with that if I decide on this mod.They are very tough and thin ! Thanks for the pictures.

My hammer was in pretty rough shape when I received the gun. If you look at the picture I supplied, when looking at it on the right side the corner was chipped already. Plus I over did it with the dremel which I rarely use. If you keep the slot the same width when you deepen it with a steady hand you should have no problem with it setting off caps. The way the one shown is, it still reliably sets off caps. So many guns with posts out there now with no problems, and you have the skills to do it, you should go for it!

 

[45D]

The trouble I have with the cap post is I can see how the notch in the hammer face might have to be adjusted for clearance ( void in the pin slot casting corner) and even from the factory an un altered notch has little surface area actually impacting the cap when firing so wouldn't want to make it any bigger.
I like the jig saw blade idea and will go with that if I decide on this mod.They are very tough and thin ! Thanks for the pictures.

The cap post is screwed in and then fitted to the existing slot in the hammer face so safety features are maintained.
The shield does an excellent job of keeping fouling, cap fragments, debris and such out of the action. Been using them for years! Cowboy shooters love um.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Well they both look like good ideas and I'm warming up to them. I just have to chew on things a bit and kick the tires until I get comfortable with them.
What I really love is the good idea exchange and discussion of pros and cons. These idea exchanges and willing ness to share create knowledge advancement, diversity and option availability. Good stuff guys !

 

[Ballshooter]

I shot mine last week after the mod and I am happy with the results.

 

[45D]

Mike, have you ever tried any Nitre/blue finished screw heads? A friend of mine did that to all the screw heads in a Rolling block rifle he had and the pale blue finish looked really unique with the color cased receiver. I don't know how durable it is but the color and finish he did really stood out and was most pleasing in a subtle fashion.

I haven't. How long of a process is it? I like the look . . .
My problem is "time". My experience has been that the fire blued screws retain there colors pretty good but if handled a lot, tends to fade. Since I don't disassemble mine very often ( or pretty much ever) they still look good.
The need I have for coloring is mainly from straightening up screw heads on used revolvers as well as many NIB revolvers ( they usually have some upset edges from the factory).
My process is - after the tuning process, the screws are hardened (as much as they can be), buggered up heads are cleaned up, then polished ( as well as shafts and screw pins), and fire blued. The color ranges from dark blue to "purple-ish". I can generally do two sets of screws ( usually 2 revolvers at a time, (11-14 screws per)) in 35/45 mins. start to finish.

Nitre bluing may figure in in the "Custom" offering because of the time element. I'll be offering a "screwless" feature in the near future.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

I haven't. How long of a process is it? I like the look . . .
My problem is "time". My experience has been that the fire blued screws retain there colors pretty good but if handled a lot, tends to fade. Since I don't disassemble mine very often ( or pretty much ever) they still look good.
The need I have for coloring is mainly from straightening up screw heads on used revolvers as well as many NIB revolvers ( they usually have some upset edges from the factory).
My process is - after the tuning process, the screws are hardened (as much as they can be), buggered up heads are cleaned up, then polished ( as well as shafts and screw pins), and fire blued. The color ranges from dark blue to "purple-ish". I can generally do two sets of screws ( usually 2 revolvers at a time, (11-14 screws per)) in 35/45 mins. start to finish.

Nitre bluing may figure in in the "Custom" offering because of the time element. I'll be offering a "screwless" feature in the near future.

Mike

Pins and set screw secured ?

 

[45D]

Pins and set screw secured ?

No, one of my offerings is called "interference pins". They mount in the frame and rest on flats ground on the screw pins/ screw and lock them into position.

With the trigger guard and back strap in place, the action screws can't work loose.

The pins for the "screwless" frame will be pins turned the same dimension as the screw / screw pins and held in position similarly.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

No, one of my offerings is called "interference pins". They mount in the frame and rest on flats ground on the screw pins/ screw and lock them into position.

View attachment 240729

With the trigger guard and back strap in place, the action screws can't work loose.

The pins for the "screwless" frame will be pins turned the same dimension as the screw / screw pins and held in position similarly.

Mike

I see, got it ! I was thinking of the grip and trigger quard screws when you first said "frame" screws and was wondering how that could happen . So the head of the pin remains the same OD as the screw head to fill the counter bore seat in the frame side?

 

[45D]

I see, got it ! I was thinking of the grip and trigger quard screws when you first said "frame" screws and was wondering how that could happen . So the head of the pin remains the same OD as the screw head to fill the counter bore seat in the frame side?

Yes, the trigger and bolt screw pins will be like blanks. My "test" frame will have the hammer screw threads drilled and the hammer screw will be like a blank as well.

Mike