? about seamless tubing barrels

[Shine]

here is a barrel from one of those guys in Mississippi. That orange streak is a groove that runs straight to the breach. I sent it back and demanded a real barrel. You could not have paid me to shoot it.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Shine,I have to admit that is pretty disconcerting. You were right to send it back. Was the seam visible on the outside? And, were you taken care of promptly without hassle by the builder?

 

[redwing]

Stumpkiller is dead on with his information. I worked in the development of high pressure tubing and vessels used in oil and gas operations. The use of these Hydle. tubes for gun barrels is not something I would do. :shake:

 

[Shine]

no and no. After alot of unanswered calls and emails I did get a barrel turned from a colerain blank.

 

[tg]

It has been a while since I purchased any gun parst how much difference are we really talking about between a tubing barrel and a comparable profile/boresize one made by Colrane or GM for what would likley be a finished gun (say TVM as they are known by most) in the 1000 dollar range +/- or $600 worth of pats as a project? just looking for some perspective from the cost angle

 

[Capt. Jas.]

no and no. After alot of unanswered calls and emails I did get a barrel turned from a colerain blank.

Was it oct. to round and the oct. was flat square with no taper? Wow the muzzle thickness of the one you posted shows it's not a "fowler" barrel.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I was wondering if that was due to camera blur.

Even the swamped Colerain fowler barrel is less than 1/10th of an inch in the wall at the muzzle. (0.0905").

Guess that makes up for the seam! But no one claimed the musket was a fowler. ;-)

 

[Shine]

The colerain blank was turned by the drunken monkey that put the gun together to the same profile as the barrel that came on the gun. So as to fit the channel. That means it has no taper just as the DOM tube barrel. It is thinner than the first one. The gun was in the white. But I had to re do the whole thing. The new barrel I got did not even have a touch hole. And I had to solder on the tenons and sight. Lets not even start about the beetle holes in the stock. And the lock coming without sear spring :cursing: It started as this.

who puts a cheek piece on what supposed to be a fowler? Note said beetle holes.

This is how it ended up. Note no more rifle cheek piece

It took about 2 months to get the barrel issue resolved. The reason I did not send the whole gun back was I was afraid I would never see my money again. The barrel was not that thick its a reflection. And I still have to fix the sorry excuse for a side plate.

 

[tg]

I sent back three "in the white" guns to Mississippi ten years ago before keeping one that I thought I could work with and when I tapped out the barrel pins two of them shattered the wood as the holes did not line up and someone just cut the pins short and put then in from one side, I fixed it with epoxy and remains of the splinters and it was to be a "plain gun" anyway which I had no problems making out of what I had to work with, when done it was a good shooter and looked OK for what I was going for except for the straight oct section which always bugged me I know of quite a few folks who are very happy with these guns so not all had problems, they are one of the best guns to shoulder and eye I have ever held, that stock is pretty much the base piece for most of the guns made there I believe, there are always reasons for the substantial price difference between different makers guns BTW anyone with the barrel price comparisons I asked about?

 

[Stumpkiller]

If what you're asking is just the difference in the barrel price in a kit or finished it will likely be about $180 to $220. A swamped Colerain new is $225 to $260 vs. $8/ft of a piece of seamless S/S tubing. Both still need fittings. A straight drilled hex barrel may run $150 to $180(?) I don't know of anyone who makes a cylinder shaped, round "bull" barrel for M/l, likely someone does somewhere.

Fred miller used to charge $75 to inlet a swamped barrel into a stock blank not too long ago. I don't thing a straight tube was any cheaper.

I checked and one gunsmith gives you back $150 to use a straight or tapered vs. swamped barrel.


Interesting that most barrels are seamless, but the ones we're discussing are the one with seams that are supposed to be formed seamlessly after the weld/electron beam process. :hmm:

 

[tg]

I do not see that one is really saving all that much considering the total price of a new gun or parts, it seems it would be well worth the extra $ to get a barrel with a better profile and no questions about the material used to make it to me,had I known that the oct section was not tapered I would have opted for a different barrel or went else where, I did not even know the barrel was made from tubing untill after I got the gun parts, which was not a big deal as I shoot modertae loads anyway, but I think all builders/parts vendors should make this known up front, they did not do so ten years ago, I think they had a "if they don't ask don't tell policy" If these barrels are 100% OK why not be preoud in the advertizing of them? I wonder if thay had doubts or were just tryimg to completely avoid the issue about the publics doubts.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I won't go into prejudices but I will say plainly that if I ordered a kit or finished gun and it had a straight tube that was not previously described in the sales or ordering information I would be bitterly unhappy. If it had a visible seam I would be hopping mad.

 

[tg]

I suggested to the builder that he should make it known what the barrels were made of and that they lacked any taper in the oct. section but I did not follow up to see if this was ever done by this particular builder.

BTW Shine, what is there about that type of side plate that you do not like?

 

[Capt. Jas.]

A "fowler" WAS what was being represented when some guys were being sold some of these things and they are super thick at the muzzle. In fairness all of the current barrels are too thick.

I also saw some of those "Colerains" a couple of years ago and they were straight cut and in my opinion not even up to Colerain standards.

TG I agree but the barrel is just the beginning of the way a lesser priced gun is so priced. When one pays much less for a gun than what others are charging it's not just the difference in wholesale vs. retail on parts.
Look for: pretty but sponge soft wood, routed ramrod channels, straight barrels, rifle buttplates where a long tang is called for, "Siler" locks put together from kits by who knows what, screw in the barrel tang and also for the front lock bolt, incorrect parts for the represented gun, generic architecture, slab sides with way too much wood everwhere including huge lock panels ... etc.
You get what you pay for.

Shine, I had a cousin that was "Browned" as well. Nice even job both outside and inside the barrel. :shocked2:

 

[tg]

You can end up with a pretty thick barrel by chooseing the smaller bore in a series of three offered in the same profile, I have a .58 bore Colrane on my fusil like this but knew what it was going to be going in, I was going cone the muzzle to make it look better but have not done so yet, I am not sure what effect this may have on shot patterns if any.

 

[Shine]

TG I just don't like it. its cheesy, I don't think its correct to the style of gun. Only one bolt holding the lock. Oh the reason the stock is cut back. Too short pins. Spit the end while I was drifting it to get the old barrel off.
Capt.Jas I hear ya. it was hard to "de Brown" it. It shoots very well but im tempted to get rid of it because I belive in bad ju ju. That and the whole ordeal still angers me.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I belive in bad ju ju.

That's why I talk to my car and sailboat. I don't want 'em mad at me. :grin:

I did a paper in college regarding "gut feelings" (Human Behavior). At the time the human embryo becomes a fetus (week eight) the brain, spinal cord and nervous system goes into high gear and form simultaniously out of similar cells. My theorym was that a "gut feeling" is a response to signals from the periphery nerves and cerebellum - the same system that tells you whether a touch is pleasurable or annoying (think about it - without looking is it a big, nasty spider walking on your arm or the caress of a lover's fingertips?)

If you have a "something's not right" impulse it may be because some primative self-preservation center in the "old" parts of the brain and brain stem did a benefit analysis in animal terms that only had three choices: attack it, avoid it or mate with it. In your case number two popped up.

Some people call it the "sniff test". 600,000 years ago that kept us alive. If your barrel "doesn't smell right" you'll always have a nagging doubt.

 

[Shine]

See I knew I wasn't crazy

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I'm not a gun builder and the one smoothy I have is a CVA .50 Hawken pistol capper that I reamed out due to badly pitted bore.
I have no doubt thought s/s aircraft scdl 20 hyd tubing would withstand BP pressures for a shot only barrell.
whether or not it could be found straight enuff to use for that is another 'if' though,

 

[B.Habermehl]

NA! your definately Crazy :grin: BJH