19th century British Firearm

[BIGBEAR]

. I have an old London / Westwood maker -percussion- smooth bore ML
Hex to round heavy barrel - wedding band style ...barrel has been cut off ( crooked)
at @ 33 inches.

Stock appears to have broken in two pieces around the lock ... it has been patched
Back together with copper plates / small brass screws , on both sides of stock..

This is in poor condition, as it was found in an old barn , hidden behind some old equiptment.
When I started to examine it , I found it was still loaded !! I tried to use my bullet/ patch puller screw attachment, but it kept stripping out ...I then used a piece of 1/2 in. Copper tubing and began to tap a little to try and loosen the charge..
I of course had it saturated with oil before I tried this ....when I removed the pipe and
Went to dump out the crude ,it was full of shot ..!

I'm still not sure what guage this would be considered , it measures .814 bore at muzzle.
Would this be a specific caliber or guage ?

It's a cool old gun - I'll try to send some pictures tomorrow

It does have two different proof marks on left rear of barrel..
Any ideas on how old this gun is ?

Thanks , Bob

 

[BIGBEAR]

Here's some pics of my old smoothie

 

[plmeek]

The proof marks are post-1813 Birmingham stamps. The barrel and most likely the whole gun was made in Birmingham in spite of the "London" stamp on the barrel. A lot of Birmingham makers marked their guns with "London" as a marketing ploy since it wasn't against the law. The law only controlled the proofing.

Baily and Nie list 4 gun makers in Birmingham that could have made your fowler or shotgun.

Isaiah Westwood (1868). Gunstocker. 16 Weaman St.
Joseph Westwood (1829-1845). Gun and pistol maker. 44 Liverly St. 1829-1833; 70 Great Charles St. 1834-1845.
Josiah Westwood (1868). Gunstocker. 17 Price St.
O. Westwood (1857-1861). Gunstocker. Dean's Yd. Weaman St. 1857-1860; 16A Weaman St. 1860-1861.

The dates given are dates they advertised or were listed in business directories. Actual working dates can extend earlier and later than those given. There's almost a generation difference in the dates for Joseph and the others suggesting he may have been the father and the others sons or nephews.

Bailey and Nie also listed a Maria Westwood as a barrel maker (1849). Possibly Josiah's wife who carried on part of his business after his death? This is just speculation, but a pretty common practice in Britain at the time.

I'm not sure what the "HY" and "407" and "P?" marks might stand for. The single "7" stamp might be the bore indicator. A law was passed in 1855 decreed that, "On all Barrels the Gauges Size of the barrel shall be Struck." In that case, the bore should measure larger than 0.873", which is the size of a ball 7 to the pound. You gave a measurement of 0.814" at the muzzle, so there is an inconsistency.

 

[Shot deer]

I not totally sure about it all, but it's a beautiful smoothy!

The proof marks are post-1813 Birmingham stamps. The barrel and most likely the whole gun was made in Birmingham in spite of the "London" stamp on the barrel. A lot of Birmingham makers marked their guns with "London" as a marketing ploy since it wasn't against the law. The law only controlled the proofing.

Baily and Nie list 4 gun makers in Birmingham that could have made your fowler or shotgun.

Isaiah Westwood (1868). Gunstocker. 16 Weaman St.
Joseph Westwood (1829-1845). Gun and pistol maker. 44 Liverly St. 1829-1833; 70 Great Charles St. 1834-1845.
Josiah Westwood (1868). Gunstocker. 17 Price St.
O. Westwood (1857-1861). Gunstocker. Dean's Yd. Weaman St. 1857-1860; 16A Weaman St. 1860-1861.

The dates given are dates they advertised or were listed in business directories. Actual working dates can extend earlier and later than those given. There's almost a generation difference in the dates for Joseph and the others suggesting he may have been the father and the others sons or nephews.

Bailey and Nie also listed a Maria Westwood as a barrel maker (1849). Possibly Josiah's wife who carried on part of his business after his death? This is just speculation, but a pretty common practice in Britain at the time.

I'm not sure what the "HY" and "407" and "P?" marks might stand for. The single "7" stamp might be the bore indicator. A law was passed in 1855 decreed that, "On all Barrels the Gauges Size of the barrel shall be Struck." In that case, the bore should measure larger than 0.873", which is the size of a ball 7 to the pound. You gave a measurement of 0.814" at the muzzle, so there is an inconsistency.

This is probably the best explanation, and all I could come up with.

 

[BIGBEAR]

Thanks guys , your input is greatly appreciated...
I wasn't sure what I have here ...and that helps a lot ...

The way I got it , was lucky enough .
The new owners of the property were cleaning up and found the gun .
They brought it to the landfill, and we're going to throw it in the dump..
I know the employee at the dump and he gave it to me !

When you hold an old gun like this , it has to make you wonder , where it's been and
What was its story ..

I actually got the lock working , now I want to hone the bore to see how pitted it really is..

Thanks , Bob

 

[BIGBEAR]

A few pictures of the lock :

 

[crankshaft]

Good for you For the rescue. It Was a nice piece back in the day.