1863 Springfield: Real or Replica

[Splitear]

In a bit over my head here, and looking for some help identifying if this is an original 1863 Springfield or a reproduction. The gun is in good shape, bore is very good, lock is strong. The barrel bands are on tight, and I think I’d have to drive them off to remove them, and I don’t want to go beating on this thing if I don’t have to How would I go about determining if this is the real deal or a defarbed replica? Any help is appreciated.

 

[Splitear]

Bore condition is nearly flawless.

 

[leadhoarder]

I cannot really help but if that is an original the condition of the wood is spectacular.

 

[ArmorerRoy]

The wood looks too good to me for an original. Original wood would have shrunk leaving the buttplate oversize. Nice gun.

 

[64Springer]

The condition of the wood is highly sanded, highly poly'd, highly polished, and it decreased the value of the rifle considerably.

The lock has several inspector marks and looks original.

Pull the barrel. There should be countless inspector marks all over the barrel and breech area.

There will not be a zillion inspector marks in the barrel and breech area if it's a fake.

That Casper the Ghost stamp on the bolster should be an eagle holding arrows with its beak facing left.

 

[Splitear]

The condition of the wood is highly sanded, highly poly'd, highly polished, and it decreased the value of the rifle considerably.

The lock has several inspector marks and looks original.

Pull the barrel. There should be countless inspector marks all over the barrel and breech area.

There will not be a zillion inspector marks in the barrel and breech area if it's a fake.

That Casper the Ghost stamp on the bolster should be an eagle holding arrows with its beak facing left.

Any advice on removing the barrel bands without risking beating the thing up? The band springs will move, but the bands are holding on pretty tight.

 

[64Springer]

Any advice on removing the barrel bands without risking beating the thing up? The band springs will move, but the bands are holding on pretty tight.

Place a bit of grease in front of the bands.

Spray a little lubricant around and under the bands.

Use a wooden dowel and alternate tapping from one side to the other side.

This will drive/walk the bands off evenly.


PS: Is there an eagle with VP on the left side breech area of the barrel and a date on top of the barrel at the breech?

 

[64Springer]

Just looked at your bore pic.

Others can chime in, but that's an awful lot of lands and grooves.

Mine has three lands/three grooves.


PS: Those are 1861 barrel bands and retainers. Unfortunately, she's a parts gun.

 

[PastorB]

If that is an original, the stock has been sanded and refinished. The rear sight is also "hokey" looking, as it appears to be off an early trapdoor, not an authentic 3 leaf sight, nor a 1863 Type 2 single leaf sight, as everyone I have ever seen only has a single peep for 300 yards, and a v notch for 500. I would never say never, as I hate to speak in absolutes, but my guess it is a "parts gun" made from surplus, with a refinished stock. The lack of an Federal Eagle on the bolster should raise a red flag also. Just my observations from looking at your pics, and comparing to my originals, and those of others I have personally held and seen.

 

[hawkeye2]

Originals all had 3 land & groove barrels, this one has multi. Poor fit of bolster to lock plate. ??? stamp on bolster. Face of bolster has rounded edges, should be square edges. 1863s all had one of 2 types of round faced bands, these are flat (1861 style) bands. Lock stamping is weak, case colors are too bright. Late 63 sight leaves on early 63 base. Some kind of repro.

 

[Splitear]

Thanks everyone, sounds like a reproduction. I bought it well and should be able to get my money back out of it I appreciate the help!

 

[PathfinderNC]

Are original locks color case hardened? This one looks to be.

 

[hawkeye2]

63 Locks & hammers were casehardened (not color) and exhibited very little color. Over the years they tended to fade into a gray.

 

[cebusey]

The wood looks too good to me for an original. Original wood would have shrunk leaving the buttplate oversize. Nice gun.

Normally I would agree about the wood shrinkage around the butt plate, however I recently purchased a beat to heck and back Enfield pattern 1853 with lock dated 1864. It is not from Nepal but Enfield manufactured. The buttplate and trigger guard are as tight as the day it left England despite the wear and tear the stock has seen. On the other hand the wood has shrunk around the tang. Can't tell how much the wood around the bands may have changed as they are the screw type and can be tightened to make up for slight to moderate shrinkage. Lock mortise has been beatup.

 

[leadhoarder]

The real question is how does it shoot?

 

[Eras Gone]

I think it is a parts gun using a reproduction barrel and original lock and furniture. The bands are from a Model 1861. The bolster shape and rifling are hints that the barrel is a reproduction. Very nice rifle musket otherwise.

 

[Splitear]

Any idea of a value in something like this?

 

[sturmkatze]

I’d ask someone who knows and not the Billy Bob internet experten. Get someone who knows and in person. Where do you live?

 

[Splitear]

I’d ask someone who knows and not the Billy Bob internet experten. Get someone who knows and in person. Where do you live?

Upstate NY, near Saratoga.

 

[sturmkatze]

Upstate NY, near Saratoga.

I’d not get in a hurry. Find an expert. Paul Ackerman is up that way. I get flinter stuff from him, but he might be able to help or refer you to someone. Outstanding business.

Ackerman Arms
(607) 264-2044