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Does the person who shot that score live in Arkansas?
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100 yards with a .32 cal
- Thread starter woodse guy
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Pawbill said:
Good. Keep him out of Arkansas. :rotf:
kingsax26
45 Cal.
LOL.... :v
1776,
You have such a way with words!
Fred
You have such a way with words!
Fred
I have been pondering :hmm: that statment since you posted it. I really want to say that is an incorrect claim. But, really, I don't know if, in fact, a smaller ball will destabilize over distance. Or any size ball, for that matter. I suspect this is something that might get answered by the guys with mathematical tables and such.
I'll ask it this way:
Hypothetically, perfect sphere lead round balls of .32 cal. and another of .54 cal. are fired towards a target 100 yards away: does the .32 cal. ball begin to destabilize (e.g. wobble and go off course) past 50 yards while the .54 cal. ball retains a perfect spin and continue on a perfect line towards the target? (scenario assumes no wind deflection)
I have no math or tests to proved this, but my highly reliable 'gut' tells me the answer is "no". The balls both spin and stay true. In reality, I don't know. :idunno:
Somebody settle this one, please.
Stability is a function of spin and coecentricity of the projectile. So assuming two perfectly round spheres, one of 32 caliber and one of 58, then coecntricity will not be a factor.
Rotational speed imparted by the rifling is affected by two things in a muzzle loader, the twist of the barrel and Mzzle velocity. The formula is RPM = MV (in feet per second)x(12/twist in Inchs)x60 (number of seconds in a minute). On one in 76 twist a 32 caliber ball traveling 1400 fps is doing 11,760 RPM. 2000 fps is spinning at 19,200 RPM. A 58 caliber ball under exactly the same conditions is also traveling at 11,760 rpm or 19,200 RPM respectively, except it would be hard to get a 58 caliber ball to 2000 fps.
The mass of the bullet only comes into play with respect to the rate at which it losses velocity and the bullet will not desatbilise until it looses its rotational speed. This will not happen at 100 yards with either the 32 or the 58.
Thus Rifleman your gut is completely correct. :grin:
Rotational speed imparted by the rifling is affected by two things in a muzzle loader, the twist of the barrel and Mzzle velocity. The formula is RPM = MV (in feet per second)x(12/twist in Inchs)x60 (number of seconds in a minute). On one in 76 twist a 32 caliber ball traveling 1400 fps is doing 11,760 RPM. 2000 fps is spinning at 19,200 RPM. A 58 caliber ball under exactly the same conditions is also traveling at 11,760 rpm or 19,200 RPM respectively, except it would be hard to get a 58 caliber ball to 2000 fps.
The mass of the bullet only comes into play with respect to the rate at which it losses velocity and the bullet will not desatbilise until it looses its rotational speed. This will not happen at 100 yards with either the 32 or the 58.
Thus Rifleman your gut is completely correct. :grin:
I agree with you.
The spinning ball only has one thing acting on it that will reduce the speed it is spinning at as it flys downrange.
There will be some reduction in the rotational speed because of the drag from the wind reacting against any surface irregularities but if the ball is fairly smooth the effect will be slight.
As for this "stability" thing people keep talking about it really doesn't exist with a spherical object like a ball.
If we were speaking of an elongated bullet then yes, stability is a factor. That's because of something known as "critical speed" which all rotating shafts have and a elongated bullet isn't much more than a shaft.
These critical speeds can cause a shaft to oscillate about their axis to such an extent that the nose of the bullet can end up pointed in any direction.
Getting back to a spherical ball, if we aren't worried about the speed the ball is spinning to provide stability they why does the spinning ball shoot more accurately?
To answer this we must consider what is happening to the ball as it flies downrange.
We need something to overcome one of the main forces acting on the ball.
That force is the force of the wind, acting on the irregularities on the balls surface.
If we shot a ball out of a smoothbore so it wasn't spinning at all, the force of momentum will try to keep the ball flying straight.
The wind blast hitting a irregularity will try to deflect the ball away from its initial line of flight.
For a while, the momentum will win but eventually (about 30+ yards or less) the wind blast will begin to succeed and the ball will start to move off course. It could be up,down, right or left or any combination of these directions.
At first it isn't very noticeable but by the time the ball has traveled 60 yards or more it will be quite obvious the ball is no longer traveling at the point it was aimed at.
Now, if we spin the ball about an axis that is pointed in the direction the ball is traveling we have something else happening. Something good.
The wind will still try to deflect the ball but because it is spinning, the deflection force will constantly be pointed in a different direction.
For those who are having a difficult time imagining this lets say the ball has an imaginary 12 o'clock position marked on it and when the 12 o'clock position is straight up the wind wants to blow the ball to the right.
As soon has the wind started to succeed the ball has rotated so the 12 is now at the 1 o'clock position so now the wind is trying to blow the ball to the right and slightly downward.
Milliseconds later the ball has rotated so the 12 is now at the 3 o'clock position so the wind is now trying to blow the ball down.
This continues with the wind trying to blow the ball first right, then right plus down, then down, then slightly to the left and down, then to the left, then to the left and up, then up and so forth.
The end result of all of this is the ball is not deflected in any direction. It continues to fly along the arc toward the aim point on the target.
It doesn't take a whole lot of rotational speed to accomplish this which is why a roundball shooting gun can use rates of twist like 1 in 6 feet or slower and the ball will still fly true.
Now, getting back to the little .32, typically they are shot from barrels with fairly fast twist rates. They also typically have high velocities (black powder speaking).
Like I said, the wind blast will try to slow down the rotational speed but I think that at ranges out to 100 yards the ball will still be spinning fast enough to overcome the deflection the wind is trying to create.
Now, cross winds is another story.
The little, light weight .32 ball doesn't have a lot of mass and it loses speed rapidly because of the poor aerodynamics of the shape.
This rapidly removes the balls momentum so even a small breeze or gust will easily blow the ball off course.
The spinning ball only has one thing acting on it that will reduce the speed it is spinning at as it flys downrange.
There will be some reduction in the rotational speed because of the drag from the wind reacting against any surface irregularities but if the ball is fairly smooth the effect will be slight.
As for this "stability" thing people keep talking about it really doesn't exist with a spherical object like a ball.
If we were speaking of an elongated bullet then yes, stability is a factor. That's because of something known as "critical speed" which all rotating shafts have and a elongated bullet isn't much more than a shaft.
These critical speeds can cause a shaft to oscillate about their axis to such an extent that the nose of the bullet can end up pointed in any direction.
Getting back to a spherical ball, if we aren't worried about the speed the ball is spinning to provide stability they why does the spinning ball shoot more accurately?
To answer this we must consider what is happening to the ball as it flies downrange.
We need something to overcome one of the main forces acting on the ball.
That force is the force of the wind, acting on the irregularities on the balls surface.
If we shot a ball out of a smoothbore so it wasn't spinning at all, the force of momentum will try to keep the ball flying straight.
The wind blast hitting a irregularity will try to deflect the ball away from its initial line of flight.
For a while, the momentum will win but eventually (about 30+ yards or less) the wind blast will begin to succeed and the ball will start to move off course. It could be up,down, right or left or any combination of these directions.
At first it isn't very noticeable but by the time the ball has traveled 60 yards or more it will be quite obvious the ball is no longer traveling at the point it was aimed at.
Now, if we spin the ball about an axis that is pointed in the direction the ball is traveling we have something else happening. Something good.
The wind will still try to deflect the ball but because it is spinning, the deflection force will constantly be pointed in a different direction.
For those who are having a difficult time imagining this lets say the ball has an imaginary 12 o'clock position marked on it and when the 12 o'clock position is straight up the wind wants to blow the ball to the right.
As soon has the wind started to succeed the ball has rotated so the 12 is now at the 1 o'clock position so now the wind is trying to blow the ball to the right and slightly downward.
Milliseconds later the ball has rotated so the 12 is now at the 3 o'clock position so the wind is now trying to blow the ball down.
This continues with the wind trying to blow the ball first right, then right plus down, then down, then slightly to the left and down, then to the left, then to the left and up, then up and so forth.
The end result of all of this is the ball is not deflected in any direction. It continues to fly along the arc toward the aim point on the target.
It doesn't take a whole lot of rotational speed to accomplish this which is why a roundball shooting gun can use rates of twist like 1 in 6 feet or slower and the ball will still fly true.
Now, getting back to the little .32, typically they are shot from barrels with fairly fast twist rates. They also typically have high velocities (black powder speaking).
Like I said, the wind blast will try to slow down the rotational speed but I think that at ranges out to 100 yards the ball will still be spinning fast enough to overcome the deflection the wind is trying to create.
Now, cross winds is another story.
The little, light weight .32 ball doesn't have a lot of mass and it loses speed rapidly because of the poor aerodynamics of the shape.
This rapidly removes the balls momentum so even a small breeze or gust will easily blow the ball off course.
woodse guy
40 Cal.
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Well time for the shooting report. 30 yards 10 grains of 3F Goex.Is this enough for squirrel hunting? 50 yards 30 grains of 3F goex. At 100 yards stopped sat 40 grains of 3F swiss. Tried different loads of 2F and 3F Goex. Used pillow ticking from .010 at the way to .017. My balls weighted 45.1 grains. All the shots where around 12 inches low.
woodse guy
40 Cal.
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I stopped at .014 pillow ticking.
How big was the 12" low group? Hold over or site adjustment can raise POI.
woodse guy
40 Cal.
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I need to get a better target to shoot at but it was about 3 to 4 inches. A descent starting point.
I would say that is very good shooting for a .32 at 100 yds. :hatsoff:
Richard Brinkman
40 Cal.
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That's very good now you can start fine tuning. And something else that no one has mentioned but being very consistent on the bench is extremely important. You can also move the barrel forward and back on the rest looking for sweet spot. when I find one I measure it and then on following shots I will wrap some electrical tape around the barrel at that point and always return it to the same place. Another thing to watch for is to keep the rifle as vertical as possible if you would cant the rifle one way or the other form you normal position you will move that shot considerably for the previous one.
RB
RB
If the squirrels die that is enough. If they laugh at your, it isn't. :blah:
However, your main concern should be good groups at 50 yards. Since you have a variety of powders, I'll opin your best choice should be to stick with the Swiss 3Fg. Save the 2Fg for when you buy a fowler. Work on those groups and learn to 'kentucky' for the 100 yard targets.
However, your main concern should be good groups at 50 yards. Since you have a variety of powders, I'll opin your best choice should be to stick with the Swiss 3Fg. Save the 2Fg for when you buy a fowler. Work on those groups and learn to 'kentucky' for the 100 yard targets.
Thanks for the info and saying it out loud.
I never understood why rifling had any effect on a roundball.
Was scared to say anything because it seemed to be gospel truth that the spinning, or gyroscopic effect, was so important in the same way it was for elongated bullets.
I think also the spinning roundball minimizes the effect of any abnormalities in the sphere, like voids,etc.
Also, maybe keeping the sprue oriented front and center.
I never understood why rifling had any effect on a roundball.
Was scared to say anything because it seemed to be gospel truth that the spinning, or gyroscopic effect, was so important in the same way it was for elongated bullets.
I think also the spinning roundball minimizes the effect of any abnormalities in the sphere, like voids,etc.
Also, maybe keeping the sprue oriented front and center.
I have a 32 cal wesson caplock - its a sweet little shooter - 40 grains of FFF in a 32 is way plenty I reckon - get your most accurate load figured first then adjust sights to tune your group dead on at 100 yards - now you should hit ok at 50 with a six o clock hold of sights - this works with most ball guns if they loaded solid
