Kibler side effect?

1st off let me state that I don't own a Kibler but I've read a lot of threads on how user friendly they are to assemble and finish.
Is it possible that with the popularity of the Kibler kits, that other kit makers will be inspired to follow suit with their kits to make them more user friendly for those less mechanically or skillfully inclined?
I've built several so called "kits" from other makers and they required a lot and I mean a lot of hours and hand work, where as the Kiblers sound so much easier.

Depends on whether people want to assemble or build a gun.

Short answer to this is NO ! Sorry but Jim kibler has left the rest well behind. Only to continue to be further as he releases more kits. The Fowler kit when offered will occupy all, But the from a blank builders . At least for the next 4/5 years

Doubtful. Jim has MANY skillsets others would have to outsource making it impossible due to cost and time issues.

Nothing is ever perfect, but the products Jim offers are superior to the other similar choices. His locks alone set the Kibler kits apart. Agree with @rich pierce that you assemble a Kibler kit, you do not build it. But you can still learn good metal and wood finishing techniques. Luckily there are still kit options for more involved builds out there all the way to a full plank build.

When the smoothbore comes out, Kibler won't be able to make them fast enough.

Most likely as they come out they will reduce the value of others. Got to love competition in the market.

B P Maniac Shooter said:

When the smoothbore comes out, Kibler won't be able to make them fast enough.

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Yep. Jim posted here a few days ago that the reason for the Fowler delay was that they were selling so many current kits that they’re swamped. It’s good to know that there’s such a strong demand out there.

TDM said:

Yep. Jim posted here a few days ago that the reason for the Fowler delay was that they were selling so many current kits that they’re swamped. It’s good to know that there’s such a strong demand out there.

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I can see why...

One can cough up $1200-$1300 for a Kibler kit and build a rifle that will last a lifetime in less than a month.
It beats paying someone else $1500--$1800--$2000 or more to have a gun built that would take months or years to get completed.
Not sure about most of you, I've been around 6+ decades and may not have too many more years left to wait for a gun to be finished.
Kibler has figured that out quickly.
I doubt if he ever gets caught up with his customer orders.

I can't sell a $1300 rifle now. Almost every potential buyer is weighing a used rifle against one of Jim's kits...........and the kits win.

AZ Muzzleloaders said:

I can't sell a $1300 rifle now. Almost every potential buyer is weighing a used rifle against one of Jim's kits...........and the kits win.

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Correct again.

The equipment that Jim Kibler is using to make these kits is very expensive. The software needed to run those machines is very expensive. That software is also very complicated. It takes a huge amount of time and skill to create the 3D models that the equipment uses. Eventually someone else is going to start doing the same thing. Not very likely it will be anyone that is making the other kits now. You are not going to find many people with that skill set that also want to build flintlock kits.

Not sure there is enough of a market for someone else to start another business like his. Just don't look to me as there is enough profit, I'm sure it's more than just money for jim.

CNC is where manufacturing is heading, Kibler just got out in front of the pack. A huge selection of guns could eventually be available.
As I mentioned in another thread, if you want to put work into it, there is a lot you can do to a Kibler aside from just sticking it together to shoot right away.

Capt. Jas. said:

Doubtful. Jim has MANY skillsets others would have to outsource making it impossible due to cost and time issues.

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TDM said:

Yep. Jim posted here a few days ago that the reason for the Fowler delay was that they were selling so many current kits that they’re swamped. It’s good to know that there’s such a strong demand out there.

Click to expand...

B P Maniac Shooter said:

I can see why...

One can cough up $1200-$1300 for a Kibler kit and build a rifle that will last a lifetime in less than a month.
It beats paying someone else $1500--$1800--$2000 or more to have a gun built that would take months or years to get completed.
Not sure about most of you, I've been around 6+ decades and may not have too many more years left to wait for a gun to be finished.
Kibler has figured that out quickly.
I doubt if he ever gets caught up with his customer orders.

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billraby said:

The equipment that Jim Kibler is using to make these kits is very expensive. The software needed to run those machines is very expensive. That software is also very complicated. It takes a huge amount of time and skill to create the 3D models that the equipment uses. Eventually someone else is going to start doing the same thing. Not very likely it will be anyone that is making the other kits now. You are not going to find many people with that skill set that also want to build flintlock kits.

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The upshot of all the above is that two unique skillsets that Jim Kibler combines is skill as a business manager and skill as a production designer and programmer. They're both time-consuming and end goals for each might conflict to some degree. I would hope that Jim's experience and skill as a business manager leads him to 1) NOT hire inexperienced people who don't know what they're doing and need extensive training and oversight, and 2) NOT outsource production to a third party that doesn't and can't achieve the same finished product standards. If he needs to do any outsourcing at all, outsource the mundane and routine tasks of managing the business. Whatever else is done to meet production needs, retaining those skilled and experienced workers that already know how and what to do, without them getting burned out, is paramount.

In other words, folks, backlogs are preferable to a crappy product.

wiscoaster said:

The upshot of all the above is that two unique skillsets that Jim Kibler combines is skill as a business manager and skill as a production designer and programmer. They're both time-consuming and end goals for each might conflict to some degree. I would hope that Jim's experience and skill as a business manager leads him to 1) NOT hire inexperienced people who don't know what they're doing and need extensive training and oversight, and 2) NOT outsource production to a third party that doesn't and can't achieve the same finished product standards. If he needs to do any outsourcing at all, outsource the mundane and routine tasks of managing the business. Whatever else is done to meet production needs, retaining those skilled and experienced workers that already know how and what to do, without them getting burned out, is paramount.

In other words, folks, backlogs are preferable to a crappy product.

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I would also add that he is probably one of the top five custom makers in the world these days and that alone will set him apart from others who might possess some of the business and technical skills aforementioned. Most people are oblivious to the fact they have a kit with the architecture of the best originals.

Jim Kibler is a perfectionist an that alone puts him way ahead of a lot of people. He is not or ever will be satisfied with...Well that's good enough..!

There’s a huge market among folks who don’t have and don’t want to develop the skills needed to build a gun from “scratch”. In the ML club I belonged to in St. Louis there were maybe 4 members who could order a stock blank, barrel, lock, and various components here and there, make custom parts as needed, design, and build a good gun with that approach. Another few could do the same with weekly hands-on help from others. Another couple could start with a precarve and build a gun well. The rest switched to Kibler kits as soon as they were available. The competent makers kept up the creative work, loving the design and building of something not off the shelf.

(Added later). None of the Kibler kit assemblers graduated to expanding their skill sets or abilities. Just waited for the next kit to come out. It’s not an “entry drug” from what I’ve seen. Outstanding guns. Couldn’t be better.

Good points Rich. To the skilled gun maker they are indeed a blank canvas to work with. The ONLY draw back is your pretty much set with your length of pull to work with unfortunately..

waksupi said:

CNC is where manufacturing is heading, Kibler just got out in front of the pack. A huge selection of guns could eventually be available.
As I mentioned in another thread, if you want to put work into it, there is a lot you can do to a Kibler aside from just sticking it together to shoot right away.

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This is my opinion solely. I am willing to wager that Pedersoli has an eye on Jim's operation for a couple of reasons. The first, it would reduce the manual labor required for their finished products. Reduced labor costs = increased profits. Secondly, it would reduce the complexity of their kit builds to increase sales versus, say Traditions or InvestArms.

Pedersoli has the technological prowess and engineers that could duplicate this in short order once the cooperate decision is made. As with anything, the hardest part is having the original idea. If you know that something has been done, the human mind will more easily duplicate it.