Colonial rifle build for authenticity

dave_person · Feb 6, 2022

Hi,
Nice Kibler. It takes work to screw one of those up. So what research did you do to determine what a rifle made in Colonial America during 1760-1770 should look like? Internet research? Here is a colonial rifle finished as it it would during those times and based on an original gun.

There is so much junk on the internet and particularly with respect to history. Rifles go back to the beginning of the 16th century. Americans had no part in inventing rifling or added anything to rifles that others had not already discovered. We just focused more on a long barreled version and added a brass patch box and our own folk art decoration. That is about it. Our riflemen were not the "deadly scourge" of the British. The Brits learned very quickly how to counter the American riflemen and how to pin them to trees with bayonets. They served well as scouts and snipers but were not a decisive factor except in a few instances. But we have lot's of heroic myths about them. We won the Rev War because Washington held our army together long enough to wear out the British. We did not defeat the British, they lost the war.

dave

Brianl1620 · Feb 6, 2022

dave_person said:
Hi,
So what research did you do to determine what a rifle made in Colonial America during 1760-1770 should look like? Internet research? Here is a colonial rifle finished as it it would during those times and based on an original gun.

Beautiful gun, yes internet research, but yours looks like it has some aging to it. I’m talking a new gun back then. I’m sure there is always those special guns, but I’m referring to most rifles back then. Yours looks to be a SMR

Cattywompuss · Feb 6, 2022

Cutfinger said:
Rifling was invented about 1440 , The first American made rifles were made in approximately 1740 by German gunsmiths in Lancaster county , when the Revolution came along gunsmiths moved from making rifles to smooth bore firearms because they were quicker and cheaper to make than rifles .

Very nearly right! So much so that I hope you will take this as a way you can be more right: The Pennsylvania gunsmiths switched to guns other than rifles during the revolution because Washington needed muskets and there were literally too many rifles in Continental Army hands. He loved his riflemen(mostly), but he needed muskets for line troops.

Cattywompuss · Feb 6, 2022

Daveboone said:
I am finishing the stock /final fitting everything on my Kilber Colonial. I have have browning solution, but am still up in the air on using it. I have an 1863 mfg original Springfield which has held up for damn close to 160 years without any rust problems in the white, no reason this puppy shouldnt hold up just as well, My only hesitation is that of course the Springfields barrel is much more easily pulled for maintenance than the pinned Colonial. Your rifle looks so darn good though, ....and like yours, mine is a working mans gun with no ornamentation...I may have made my decision.

I am not raining on your parade at all, so please just take what I'm saying for what it is: your 1863 Springfield is made of pre-Atomic Age steel with high nickel content compared to modern gun steel. That is the reason most guns from the blackpowder era seem to do well in the white or even with high polish blueing. I'm not saying the steel was better. As a matter of fact it is worse for any application except black powder, but with regard to rust resistance, it is different. We are luckily entering into an era when the transformational fall-out of nuclear testing is being less impactful on modern steel. Nevertheless, we don't use the same metal as they did during the civil war, and have better means of rust prevention. Heck, it would take extreme neglect to get through modern melanite finishes. I have seen a rusty Glock though.

dave_person · Feb 6, 2022

Hi,
Oh well here are a bunch of other examples finished as they would be in the 18th century without using sand paper.

Dave

PathfinderNC · Feb 6, 2022

Brianl1620 said:
What the hell does any of that have to do with my post, either learn to read or move along. There’s always someone smh

[/QUOTE]
Yes @dave_person . "this is only for the builders who want their rifles to look the same as they did when purchased new back in 1760-1770" . After years and years of research, and documentation on the American Colonial Rifle this Kibler kit shows the way it should look.
Please keep up :doh:

dave_person · Feb 6, 2022

Hi Bob,
I am trying but some folks are just beyond me.

dave

Cattywompuss · Feb 6, 2022

@Brianl1620 good job on your Kibler kit. I think some of the old hands here are just a little ornery because for the long time builders they just see this as a Kibler left plain. The ostentation of claiming that your rifle is authentic and like a new rifle in the 1760s has rubbed some the wrong way. I only make it through each day by remembering that everyone on all sides of any argument is wrong. Possibly it would have gone over better if you just said "Hey guys, I finished my Kibler Colonial and left is as if it would have been new 250 years ago."

We are a bunch of pretentious sods around here, so I am guessing you will fit right in.

morehops52 · Feb 6, 2022

I really like the contrast in the wood. Was there a standard type stain back then? and is that what you used?

Brianl1620 · Feb 6, 2022

Thanks my Kibler kit was just shown to let people see how I finished mine as far as the barrel and brass and lock. I’m sure their are thousands of authentic guns, I was just trying to show mine as one also like a new one that might have been purchased back then. I will leave this forum

Brianl1620 · Feb 6, 2022

morehops52 said:
I really like the contrast in the wood. Was there a standard type stain back then? and is that what you used?

I used iron nitrate, and tannic acid

Brianl1620 · Feb 6, 2022

dave_person said:
Hi,
Nice Kibler. It takes work to screw one of those up. So what research did you do to determine what a rifle made in Colonial America during 1760-1770 should look like? Internet research? Here is a colonial rifle finished as it it would during those times and based on an original gun.

There is so much junk on the internet and particularly with respect to history. Rifles go back to the beginning of the 16th century. Americans had no part in inventing rifling or added anything to rifles that others had not already discovered. We just focused more on a long barreled version and added a brass patch box and our own folk art decoration. That is about it. Our riflemen were not the "deadly scourge" of the British. The Brits learned very quickly how to counter the American riflemen and how to pin them to trees with bayonets. They served well as scouts and snipers but were not a decisive factor except in a few instances. But we have lot's of heroic myths about them. We won the Rev War because Washington held our army together long enough to wear out the British. We did not defeat the British, they lost the war.

dave

Cattywompuss · Feb 6, 2022

Brianl1620 said:
Thanks my Kibler kit was just shown to let people see how I finished mine as far as the barrel and brass and lock. I’m sure their are thousands of authentic guns, I was just trying to show mine as one also like a new one that might have been purchased back then. I will leave this forum

No need to leave. The old timers are just gruff and require a sacrifice of utmost humility. Even in a spirit of levity I have been flamed by some here who believe they are the gatekeepers of long rifle sanctity. By all means, stay/come back. Our sport/hobby/lifestyle needs folks, and some here type before they remember that.

EC121 · Feb 6, 2022

The point is that after a whole paragraph of discussing the years of research that went into your rifle, you posted pictures of a plain Kibler kit that looks like 500 others. It was a bit underwhelming.

simonbeans · Feb 6, 2022

To Brianl1620

BYE!!

Cattywompuss · Feb 6, 2022

Welp... So much for that...

PathfinderNC · Feb 6, 2022

And I was hoping for a few close-up photos, for historical reference and stuff.

Brianl1620 · Feb 6, 2022

EC121 said:
The point is that after a whole paragraph of discussing the years of research that went into your rifle, you posted pictures of a Kibler kit that looks like 500 others. It was a bit underwhelming.

my point had nothing to do with it being a kit, I was using pictures of my gun as an example as to how a authentic gun would have looked brand new back then, I was not saying all should look like this, I was just trying to let a few people know that in the white and polished was was authentic back then. As well as many others. I may have used wrong wording I’m sorry. And it wasn’t my years of research, it was research from others over the years that I based mine on. I’m a newby and was proud of my kit gun, maybe I used wrong wording, moderators please delete me from this forum, don’t gripe when nobody does this hobby anymore

morehops52 · Feb 6, 2022

Wow, I was hoping cooler heads would prevail here. I have only been back here for a short time and have been "corrected" here also. I know that anyone can take exception to almost anything posted anywhere. I've come to the conclusion that if I can't take a bit of heat I probably shouldn't post. That said, you have a beautiful rifle that I would certainly be proud to own. I only wish I had the talent/patience/ tools to do a job like that. Stick around there are a lot of knowledgeable helpful folks on this forum and I have learned a lot just from reading here.

Cattywompuss · Feb 6, 2022

PathfinderNC said:
And I was hoping for a few close-up photos, for historical reference and stuff.

I think he initially missed your sarcasm in the first reply. It was all downhill from there.

Colonial rifle build for authenticity

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