Finding your rifle's "favorite load?"

How do you guys do it? Heres my plan. Gonna shoot off a bench, as consistently and as controlled as possible. Gonna swab between shots. I'll be shooting .490 balls with .015 pillow ticking patches. I plan on using both 2F and 3F Swiss powder, with 4F Swiss to prime. Gun is a Dixie TN Mtn rifle, 41" barrel with a 1:56" twist.

Start with 60 grains, 3 shot groups, with both powders, going up 10 gr incrementally. Plan on using milk moose dry lubed patches, commercially lubed ones and ones I lube with Mr. Flintlocks lube. Sound like a plan?

Should I increase charges at 5 or 10 gr increments? Should I shoot at 25 or 50yds? Should I wait a specific time between shots for barrel cooling? What should my max and min powder charges be?

Any advice is appreciated.

I prefer 5 shots to get a better idea of the group size and, especially for making adjustments.
I would think that 5 gr increments would suit you better, a better chance of seeing a "sweet spot" develop.
A lot of folks start at 25 yards, which I think is fine for getting indications and ensuring you're going to be on paper at longer ranges. But I think that 50 would better show how things are working.
As for a cooling off period, I'm not sure a string of 3 shots would heat your barrel up that much, especially if you're swabbing as well. By the time you check and patch your target and do whatever fiddling around, your barrel should be cooled off noticeably. If it's still too warm for your liking, continue with the fiddling.

I usually increase charges in 5 grain increments, allow the barrel to cool during shots as long as needed or is practical under existing conditions. On hot summer days you could wait rather a long time, cool fall days not so if I’m not mistaken, that rifle carries a 15/16” barrel. I’d take my foot off the gas around 100 grains, and for starters I shoot at 50 yards in three shot groups. After I feel like I’ve found promising loads I will back off to 100 and shoot 5 shot groups. Everyone has different eyesight and abilities so shoot at the ranges you know you can produce solid consistent accuracy. That may be 50 yards or 500. Don’t let your ego push you around.

yonderin said:

I prefer 5 shots to get a better idea of the group size and, especially for making adjustments.
I would think that 5 gr increments would suit you better, a better chance of seeing a "sweet spot" develop.
A lot of folks start at 25 yards, which I think is fine for getting indications and ensuring you're going to be on paper at longer ranges. But I think that 50 would better show how things are working.
As for a cooling off period, I'm not sure a string of 3 shots would heat your barrel up that much, especially if you're swabbing as well. By the time you check and patch your target and do whatever fiddling around, your barrel should be cooled off noticeably. If it's still too warm for your liking, continue with the fiddling.

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The “fiddling” is one of the best things about Muzzleloading, taking your time and enjoying the process. Makes you a better, more thoughtful marksman, imo.

I don't like to use more than one powder in one outing. I also either clean the barrel entirely and deal with the very slow progression, or just shoot 4 shots without swabbing at all until proceeding to the next 4 with a different load. If you are hunting, you are going to get one shot on a clean barrel and maybe another fouled. A rare circumstance could have you shooting the 3rd shot. When using FFg, I use 10-grain increments but for FFFg I use 5-grain increments. 25-yards doesn't tell you much so I encourage 50-yards. I might move the power charge 3 times, then change the patch and go back to those 3 powder charges. Figure out the best combo with that powder on that day. The next range trip, repeat with another powder proceeding the same way. When you have narrowed down a load for each powder, shoot the against one another on the same day. Start clean, shoot one load, clean, shoot second load, clean shoot 3rd load, etc. These are still 4-shot groups for me. At the end of this day you will have your most accurate load. There are lots of ways to proceed!

One of our members on the Forum has a system for getting accuracy from your muzzle loader. Go to his website and order the system.
http://blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

In a nut shell, you develop accuracy by changing one part of your shooting procedure at a time. Take notes and shoot a lot.

5 grain increments. I disagree with some. Start at 25 yards. What if the unaltered stock sights are barely on paper at 25, at 50 you will have no idea where your shots are landing. Use the quick 3 shot groups with no swabbing at 25 until you get something that looks promising, then test it, and tweak it at 50.
I do second the notion of only using one powder per range session. And, don't get too hung up on that patch and ball combo, might need smaller ball and thicker patch, might just need thicker patch, or, it might be fine.
Don't be afraid to try a wad of some kind between powder and patched ball. I found the increased gas seal allowed me to shoot a patch/ball combo that was easy to load, so no short starter needed, that shot as well as a tighter combo.

Change only one thing at a time. Keep good notes/records. I like to write load data, date, and target distance on the target with a sharpie then take a picture of it.

The gun is new to me. I have only fired 3 shots from it, offhand at 25 yds and while not a great group, all were in the black. I was shooting 80gr 2F, commercially lubed round pillow ticking patches and .490 ball. Didnt have time to tweak, refine or experiment....just wanted to make sure it worked!

Good advice here. Keep it coming. I'll probably start with that 2F Swiss. Shoot 3-5 shot groups at 60,70,80,90 and 100gr at 50 yds and see what she likes.

Ben Meyer said:

How do you guys do it? Heres my plan. Gonna shoot off a bench, as consistently and as controlled as possible. Gonna swab between shots. I'll be shooting .490 balls with .015 pillow ticking patches. I plan on using both 2F and 3F Swiss powder, with 4F Swiss to prime. Gun is a Dixie TN Mtn rifle, 41" barrel with a 1:56" twist.

Start with 60 grains, 3 shot groups, with both powders, going up 10 gr incrementally. Plan on using milk moose dry lubed patches, commercially lubed ones and ones I lube with Mr. Flintlocks lube. Sound like a plan?

Should I increase charges at 5 or 10 gr increments? Should I shoot at 25 or 50yds? Should I wait a specific time between shots for barrel cooling? What should my max and min powder charges be?

Any advice is appreciated.

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Ok, it’s a plan. How many trips to the range are you anticipating it to take see your plan through? I am a member of the change one thing at a time crowd. Grenadier1758 suggested you get Dutch’s ‘system’. Not a bad place to start. And for what it is worth, Dutch is also in the change one thing at a time crowd.

Couple of basic questions to start. You seem set on .015” pillow ticking patch material. Are you basing that on bore measurements, rifling groove depth, compressed patch material thickness and ball diameter? Or something you read? Could work great. Or not. The math is simple. How do you fill the rifling grooves with patch material based on compressed material thickness, ball diameter and groove and bore diameter?

Not being critical, but suggest you develop a baseline and then systematically experiment by changing one thing at a time. Dutch’s system will walk you through the process. You can get an answer changing multiple inputs at the same time (powder mfg, granulation, charge weight; patch lube changes; patch thickness, etc), but this sets up a rather complicated problem.

We are not going to the moon here. We are just punching holes in paper or letting the air out of some critters maybe a 100 yards or so away. Slow down and follow a simple process such as Dutch proposes. You will get to your goal quickly and with minimal pain.

I can go to the range often. And plan to! The reason I'm gonna use .015 pillow ticking is, it's all I have and I have a buttload of it! I did just buy a packet of commercially pre lubed round patches of the same size/material. Patch change experimentation will have to wait. What other patch stuff should I buy?

This is how I do it with a new rifle.
Take barrel out of stock and check the barrel is supported well with no gaps and not just sitting on the tang. Any vibration potential between wood and steel must be arrested!
Next I check percussion drum or bolster is not pressing on lock plate or in the case of a flintlock I check the lock plate is not bearing heavy on the barrel.
Any contact with barrel and lock mainspring must be stopped.

Next I wire wool on a soft mop the barrel and wash it out.
Next I plink some rounds with easy loading lubricated patched balls to start running the barrel in.
Whilst plinking I will vary the charges by 10 grains.
If I find something the rifle likes I will stick with it until the barrel is run in.
That may take me months.
Personally I don't think there is a quick fix to these rifles and many a modern rifle shooter is spoilt and struggles to adjust to the necessary pace of getting SOME patch ball rifles to come " together".
Some give excellent results from the get go and some need time.
This is why I never panic about surface rust when cleaning with boiling water. It is helping me take all the micro barbs off the rifling, it is helping me to run the barrel in.
Remember, the biggest barrel killer was the old priming compounds which are no longer an issue.
B.

While the rifle is new to me, it's around 40 years old(per en emailed serial # to Dixie Gun Works). The gun was worked on by a master BP gunsmith prior to me acquiring it. He refinished to stock(slimming it ever so slightly), "antiqued" the barrel, lock and metal parts, and tuned the lock and trigger. I've looked it over; the gun itself appears good to go.

I'm confident in MY shooting abilities. I'm not a competitive marksman or anything, but can group shots well offhand at 50yds with my inexpensive imported .50cal percussion Hawken(last range trip, all 12 shots nicely hit a paper plate). The "me" part of the equation shouldnt be "much" of a factor. Once I find the optimum for the gun patch/ball/powder combination I'll probably never change it. That's just how I am.

I've sighted in many a scoped rifle. My .50cal inline, AR, .30-06, and 12ga slug gun all have "their favorite" round worked out. The Hawken, while I didnt extensively experiment and tweak its load, I stumbled quickly on a load I'm happy with the accuracy of so I'm calling that one done as well. But with this flintlock, I want to be more systematic.

I do recommend avoiding using the prelubed patches for accuracy. You have no idea how old the prelubed patches are and lubrication breaks down the fibers in a patch. Do use the pillow ticking if it will fill the groves under compression. Wash the patch material to remove sizing and drying will tighten up the weave. The laundered patch material will distribute lubrication throughout the fabric upon application and provide a more consistent lubrication to the barrel.

Ultimate accuracy begins with measurements. What is the bore diameter? What is the groove diameter? What is the thickness of your patch material? Is the compressed thickness roughly the same as the groove depth? As a starting point, your ball should be 0.010" less than bore diameter. The compressed patch thickness should be the same or a little more than the groove depth. The moose milk dry lubed patch or the Mr. Flintlock lube is a good choice, just pick one for load development. Don't make any changes to your sights until you have the group size you want. You need to make sure you have a smooth crown at the muzzle. Prepare to shoot a lot.

Ben Meyer said:

While the rifle is new to me, it's around 40 years old(per en emailed serial # to Dixie Gun Works). The gun was worked on by a master BP gunsmith prior to me acquiring it.

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If your master BP gunsmith is also a shooter, might be a good source for load suggestions, particularly if the work included test firing the gun.

Ben Meyer said:

I can go to the range often. And plan to! The reason I'm gonna use .015 pillow ticking is, it's all I have and I have a buttload of it! I did just buy a packet of commercially pre lubed round patches of the same size/material. Patch change experimentation will have to wait. What other patch stuff should I buy?

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As suggested a couple times, patch thickness will be dictated by ball, bore and groove diameters, and not necessarily by what you have on hand.

You want a tight weave 100% cotton that has been through at least one or two wash cycles. Source can be anywhere. Just get a micrometer (can be had for $25 or so new, or even less used) and develop a consistent measuring method. I find that a compressed measurement gives the most likely indicator of success. Also not a fan of commercially pre lubed patches. Too much inconsistency in material thickness and lubricant amount. Many shooters start with pre lubed, but soon move on. Consistently will be your friend if you are looking for accuracy. The patch is the last thing to touch the roundball as it provides the grip between it and the bore as the roubdball travels out the bore.

Went shooting today. I only used the 2F Swiss, round cut pillow ticking patches and Mr
Flintlocks lube. I see what you mean about running the ticking thru the washing machine! The lube would run off; I had to work it into the fabric. Will be washing it soon!. Shot 60,70,80,00,100gr loads, then back to 85 then 80. It did best with 80gr. I know I can do better, as I was consistently shooting left. I attribute that to bad posture...the chair was too low for my rest, I never got fully comfortable. I can fix that. 80gr load shot a 3" group at 50 yds.

Gonna go back with 3F Swiss, start at 50gr, go up 5gr increments up to 80. Then I'm gonna do it again with dry lubed patches, then again with 2F and dry lubed patches.

These 20 shots today bring my total up to 23 shots. Im still learning the gun. I'll be shooting cloverleaves eventually, but itll take time.

Looks like you are on your way to dialing it in. I wouldn't worry about the barrel heating up too much unless you switch it to full auto.

Much said already and good, similar advice. I prefer to start .50 caliber with 2f powder. To start with use the same ball and patch size. The only variable to change should be the powder charge. Most recommend starting with the same charge as your caliber size, i.e. 50 cal. = 50 grains. I have never had a .50 cal rifle group well under 60 grains, but it doesn't hurt to start there. If your rifle happens to group best at 5o grains then you will save powder. Change increments by 5 grains and shoot at least 5 shots each group. I do this at 25 yards. I shoot till my point of impact is at its highest point on the target and then choose the load that shoots at that height with the best groups.
Once you have determined the initial best load, if you want to get real persnickety, start messing with patch size, ball size, lubes, patch material etc..

I'm currently having a little fun with a .45. I set 3 targets side by side. Shot all 3 from shooting sticks at 25 yards to remove human error or flinch. I don't have a bench out there. All were 45 grains of 3F, .18 patching and spit. The only variable was the ball. Hornady .440, my go to in this gun. Then the Hornady .445, and last my home cast .440 that tends to run a little large, somewhere in between the other two in diameter.
The results showed the 440 to spread them out in a horizontal pattern. Only a bit, but left and right of the bull. The 445 put up a one hole group 1 1/2" left of center, and a little high. Home cast dropped 2 balls in the bull and one just outside. Interesting. My go to 440 was the worst of the three.
When I get time I will leave the variables the same again and up the powder only. I'll go 50 grains, then 55 and end with 60. I'm very curious to see how 3 different lead balls will fly in relation to each other. If I see one ball consistently grouping the best as the powder goes up I'm going to use that ball powder combo and see what changing the patch or the lube does to it. Fascinating to see side by side by side what only changing the ball did.

Ames, Sounds like a good plan. I might suggest you try your go-to .440 with a thicker patch, maybe .200 pillow ticking.
I had a similar experience shooting in a new squirrel rifle, a .40 cal. Started with bore size charge .... 40 grains of FFFg ... a pre-cut patch lubed with YCA#103, and a .390 round ball. Big group at 25 yards. Big group at 45 grains, and at 50 grains the group was one ragged hole about 3/4." I started to load her up with 55 grains and another shooter said, "What're you doing, `Foot?" I told him and he shook his head. "I don't think you're gonna get her to shoot much closer, partner!" He was right.

One post already said it, but i'll throw in my tow cents: get a copy of Dutch Schoultz' method at

http://blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

this is far and away the best non shooting accessory you can buy. Dutch guarantees that, if you follow his instructions, your groups will shrink. Also, he's a really nice fellow (not an irascible old curmudgeon like me), and he'll answer your questions and provide great insight.

If, however, you do not buy his method, you dog will run off, you daughter will start dating a rock musician, you will have your bank repossess all of your vehicles (even if you don't owe money on them), someone will sneak onto your property in the middle of the night and paint your house pink, it will rain on your children's weddings, you will come home from work and find the "60 Minutes" news crew will pulled up to your front door, your hair will fall out (if it hasn't already), and you will be outed for using storebought pesto and your co- workers will make fun of you for months.

Really! (I purchased the method years ago and none of these things have happened to me.)

Make good smoke!