Creedmore 150 and historic matches

Rick Weber has been hosting long range ML matches at the Oakridge TN range for quite a few years. It would be hard to find anyone that has done more to keep our sport alive for LRML shooting in the United States then Rick.

In 2024 it will be the 150th anniversary of the famous Creedmoore matches held between the Irish and the American teams.

Starting this year March 22 and 23, Rick has decided to recreate those matches held so long ago on Long Island. The matches will lead up to the 2024 match and the 150th anniversary.

Rick has been busy getting stuff ready for this year. The targets used will also be a recreation of the same targets used in the original matches.

There is a facebook page of Creedmoore150.

I spoke to Rick yesterday and he has some really neat ideas that he is working on. I cant speak to all of them, but I think in 2024 it will be a fall match, could be a week long, good chance that there will be teams with entry fees and nice prizes.

A good read for the original matches and how big of a deal they were for the times is the book "Irish Riflemen in America". This book I think is very interesting, it also discusses some of the sight seeing they did after the matches and how big of a celebrity status these shooters had. Also keep in mind that shooting sports at this time period was perhaps the most popular sport.

God willing I will be in Oakridge shooting in a few weeks and I am really looking forward to the 150 year match.

Wouldn't it be really neat if the Irish could put together a team and be here for the 2024 matches?

I am hopeful that David M. will hop in here and provide even more details since he is one of the leading experts in this area.

Fleener

That sounds awesome. I am just getting into long range shooting. I am "building" a TC Hawken with a LRH barrel and a Lyman 57 sml sight, 17a front sight. Will a rifle like this be allowed in these matches, to your knowledge? By matches, I am also meaning the present ones leading up to the 2024 match. Thanks

Wow! What a wonderful re-creation! I read about the original matches as a teenager, and wished I could have been there! I never shot long range ( grew up in a swamp) but respect and admire good shooting. The 1000 yard range at Walnut Hill was built expressly to compete with the Irish team, the world champions at the time, except for America, who had no team until challenged by the Irish. The Americans won, but just barely, using modern Sharps and Remingtons against the Irish Rigby muzzleloaders! I can't imagine how the Irish felt upon losing their world championship. But they did the right thing by giving the Americans the proper opportunity to compete, keeping their Honor and Integrity intact, which is worth more than gold and medals. George.

Here are the rules.

Will you have a tall enough rear sight to shoot 1,000 yards?

Fleener

fleener said:

Here are the rules.

Will you have a tall enough rear sight to shoot 1,000 yards?

Fleener

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I noticed that flat PLASTIC wads are on the approved list. For me that would be a big advantage. My shots open way up with the veg. wad.

Treestalker said:

.... The 1000 yard range at Walnut Hill was built expressly to compete with the Irish team, the world champions at the time, except for America, who had no team until challenged by the Irish. The Americans won, but just barely, using modern Sharps and Remingtons against the Irish Rigby muzzleloaders...

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The series of International Matches of the 1870s, when in the US, were held at Creedmoor. The range was not built expressly to compete with the Irish and predates their challenge; the NRA's range at Creedmoor was opened in spring 1873, the first official shots being fired on 25 April that year.

Ireland were not 'world champions', but they did beat England and Scotland for the first time in the Elcho Shield match at Wimbledon in Great Britain in July 1873. Buoyed by their success, Ireland wanted further laurels. Having enlisted the support of several of the best Irish rifle shots, a challenge was addressed to America in November.

The fledgling NRA in America obviously became aware of the challenge, but was not keen to accept. It was the Amateur Club of New York City that came to the rescue and volunteered to meet the Irish. The American team won by 934 to 931 points.

If anyone want to learn a little more about this period, I have information on line: Creedmoor and the International Rifle Matches

David

Would love to go back there and watch the matches and of course it is like horse racing you need a person to root for. I purchased some nipples from Weber and of course Fleener would be there. Love to see him win.

I've taken the liberty of posting this on the shooting section of boards.ie. where I'm a well-known pest.

Thanks Research Press, I guess my 'oldtimer's' is worse than I thought!

I'd be very interested to find out if there will be any shooters from the Republic of Ireland, where rifled black-powder muzzleloading firearms are classed as prohibited firearms. I know of only two people who have a Sharps rifle of one kind or another - they are both dealers, and both keep the guns and shoot them on mainland UK. They, of course, are not even muzzleloaders, but fall foul of the present laws on actual calibre.

There are NO black powder shooting clubs or ranges in the entire country. Ownership of ANY target firearm requires documented evidence of club/range membership - a Catch 22 situation. This is entirely down to the provisions of the archaic Explosives Act of the late 1880's, which has not yet been re-written to include modern non-explosive propellants either.

Northern Ireland, however, is the same with regard to BP shooting of all kinds as the rest of the UK. I'd like to see Irish shooters from both sides of the border taking part in this competition, but as it stands.....

Fleener - please read your PM/conversation. I think is is important.

BTW - a few of us over here are unable to find the Facebook page.......

Rick’s been running his matches at Oak Ridge for many years. After over twenty years these long range muzzle loading matches are being opened up to include cartridge rifles. This year and the next few will allow the match rules and management to be refined, ready, in 2024, to mark the 150th Anniversary of the first Ireland vs USA match in 1874 at Creedmoor.

Details of the 2019 match, rules and link to the facebook group can be found here: Spring 2019, Oak Ridge, TN

David

TFoley

I had no idea that in Ireland the laws are so restrictive. Sometimes we forget that not everyone in the World has the same rights as we here in the United States.

Well, in 2024 God willing I will be representing the Irish. I am part Irish and have an Irish Rigby.

Fleener

I just realized that I miss spelled CREEDMOOR on the topic heading. Sorry for this.

Fleener

Art, I've seen it spelled at least three ways, and in shooting magazines AND manufacturer's blurb, too. We all know what you mean!

fleener said:

TFoley

I had no idea that in Ireland the laws are so restrictive. Sometimes we forget that not everyone in the World has the same rights as we here in the United States.

Well, in 2024 God willing I will be representing the Irish. I am part Irish and have an Irish Rigby.

Fleener

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It is the Republic of Ireland that has so many restrictions on muzzleloading firearms - there is still Northern Ireland, part of the UK, where any shooter can have such a rifle if he or she has a mind for it, and even handguns of the kind that we on the Mainland UK can not have since 1997.

In MY book, anybody born on the island of Ireland is Irish.

Thank you to my friend Terry Foley for drawing my attention to this thread from last March. Thank all of you, and especially Art and David, for what you are doing to keep LRML alive. I would absolutely love to be at Oakridge, even just to watch. Maybe in 2020.

We would love to have you there as well!

Fleener