New guy needs help, please.

Good morning folks.

I am relatively new to muzzle loading, so still learning and asking questions. Zonie has helped me in the past, so thanks again Zonie.
I have used a Lyman GPR (hunter edition) for deer in the past. I have upgraded this rifle with a Tip Curtis .50 that I will use for deer this fall.

I am going to sell my Great Plains Hunter, and fund a new project-- a muzzle loader shotgun that I will use for turkey, and perhaps, if I get good enough, pheasants.

Here is my confusion. I saw advertised a 20 gauge flintlock for sale on this site. Is this a gun made for shooting shot? Both? Because it was advertised as a "twenty gauge" is this what I want? I have also seen the term "fowler" used, which I suspect would suit my needs, also. I understand "fowler" were meant traditionally for birds, so given my intent to hunt turkey/pheasants, is this the direction I should take.
Then there are the hammered side by sides?

I am retiring in July, so I guess I need a new addiction. Appreciate the wisdom and willingness to share by members on this site.

Dave

Most likely smooth bores and you can use the plastic shot cups for a better pattern. Hard to beat the old guns, they are effective.

Does one style appeal to you more than others? Are your other ML flint or percussion?

To answer your question, yes a 20 ga or fowler is made to shoot shot.

If you like a double, then that helps narrow things down. I have a few doubles that I use to hunt with. Something to consider is when you are hunting pheasants, do you often get more than one bird flushed at a time? Or want a follow up shot? Or would you be content with only one shot? For me I like hunting pheasants with a double. But I am also hunting wild birds not farm raised. No one likes dropping a leg on a bird, wounding it and watch it fly away.

For what it is worth, I do not own a fowler or single barrel shotgun, plus mine are all percussion. Just gets down to personal preference.

Fleener

Thanks Fleener for your reply. My other guns have been flintlocks. I think I would prefer a percussion for this one. Now I am thinking, so a longer gun or fowler, might be more appropriate for turkey, but carrying the shorter double barrel, might be more appropriate for pheasant(plus having a second shot, which I sometimes need lol).
I am a shotgun guy, upland hunting and trap shooting, so stepping over to muzzle loading shotguns is new territory for me.
With your double barrels, do you look for antiques to shoot, or go with reproductions or custom made?
flip

I'd say look at the Pedersoli "classic standard" SxS in caplock, 12 gauge. Comes with one barrel unchoked, and one barrel choked Modified. That will give you just about anything you want to harvest. You can tailor your loads for upland birds, or waterfowl, or turkey. The unchoked barrel gives you roundball if you want to try for deer. As it's a 12 gauge, you can go for ducks too. I have one in 20 gauge, which is light for ducks, but for other stuff it's just dandy.

LD

Shotgun and fowler are basically the same. they can have one or two barrels, are intended for shot and for shooting flying birds hence the name "fowler" . Fowlers tend to have more style IMO.

Then you have smoothbores, like military muskets designed for a single ball but will also shoot shot.

Then there are smooth rifles. Essentially a rifle without the rifling. primarily for round ball but has the versatility of shooting shot.

If you are going to be shooting flying birds, you probably want a fowler or shotgun

A double barrel percussion would be required for shooting doubles at trap, right? I shoot a double 12 and enjoy the versatility it. A heavy load works on water fowl and I’ve loaded as little as 3/4 ounce for hand tossed blue rock. The gun is a Navy Arms and weights about 7 pounds so carrys easy and is lively handleing.

Good suggestion Phil. I just wrote a buddy of mine who has a double from Navy Arms he bought 25-30 yrs. ago. It has never been shot. He said he paid about $350 for it. He offered it to me last fall. Any idea what they are worth now?
flip

flipper 17 said:

Good suggestion Phil. I just wrote a buddy of mine who has a double from Navy Arms he bought 25-30 yrs. ago. It has never been shot. He said he paid about $350 for it. He offered it to me last fall. Any idea what they are worth now?
flip

Click to expand...

Personally, I would be cautious about taking on that NA double. Now, my views on sxs ml shotguns does not set well with some. And, I know that millions have been used in the past couple centuries. But one of the happiest days of my life was when I sold my sxs . The first reason I so disliked the double was that one bore was choked. It is impossible to properly load wads into a choked barrel. The wads are bigger than the muzzle opening. Too small a wad is pointless and would require carrying more than one size wad if the other barrel is not choked. The other big downside is when one shot is fired the charge (wads, shot, powder) in the unfired barrel can jump forward. This has the potential of being a very dangerous situation. To correct this you must reseat the second barrel before firing. To do THAT you must uncap the still loaded barrel for safety reasons. With all that fuss and nonsense you might as well have a single barrel fowler where the wads fit. It may be a one shooter but.....what the hey?......this is a traditional ml game we are playing here. The door is now open for those who love their sxs front stuffers to dump on me.

Those SxS 12 ga. percussion shotguns can be very effective. I have an old CVA, cylinder bore, so I don't have the problem with wads Rifleman1776 mentioned. I don't hunt with it anymore since the fields I used are now a business park. (Bummer) But the gun never failed to drop pheasant and grouse and small game. You sacrifice a little distance with that cylinder bore but it's not too bad. A buddy has a similar gun and once in a while we shoot some trap but only if we have the field to ourselves so we don't hold up the other shooters. It does take a while to load for 25 shots.

Jeff

A search of the web will give you a better idea of the dollar value then I can. I’ve been using mine since the late 70s but if he wants $350 I’d buy it. Being a heathen, I load with Remington RXP wads rather then fussing with a complicated wad column. One half a nitro card on the shot has held the loads as heavy as 1 3/4 once with a heavy powder charge. Mind you I don’t use that heavy a load any more and would recommend against any one doing it! But in my unguided youth I did lots of silly things. The choke in my gun is slight and gives no problem loading for me. The Navy Arms replicas are soundly built as are other similar ones. With a 1800s shot gun that may look and feel dandy you have over a hundred years for some unseen defect to manifest itself into a problem. Then there’s damn-maskus tubes to avoid!

Rifleman,
This is information I need to consider. I appreciate you putting it forward for me. Actually, I am thinking now I would only use it for turkey, so a single barrel might be better suited for me. I don't know. I certainly don't want to ignore the other dozen shotguns I have for upland birds, anyway.
To everyone on this site, for a new person to receive the wisdom and advice from "seasoned" hunters/shooters is fantastic.
I have seen the disagreements first hand in trap. One guy swears by one model, the guy beside him condemns the same model. One shooter spends $15000 on a new Perazzi, and then is beaten by someone shooting a $300 870 pump.
Anyway, please keep your opinions coming, I do appreciate them all.
Back and forth I go---I love it!
flip

I use a 20 gauge New England fowler for turkey hunting. I had the barrel jug choked and I get a real good pattern out to 35+ yards. I set my shooting limit at 30 yards but misjudged a turkey last fall and dropped it dead in its tracks at 35. Mine has a Colerain barrel and a chambers lock and performs to perfection. By the way it shoots roundballs pretty darn good too. Good luck in whatever you decide.

Dave

FWIW 90% of the turkeys myself and my son have harvested were taken with a 20GA and none ever got away (thats BP) I did lose the first I ever shot at with a 2 75 in unmentionable that I shot outta grandpa's 12 GA cuz I didnt shoot it enough to realize it was shooting 12" low (I have been told I hold a shot gun wrong?) Rolled that one about 15 feet and he got up trucking!!