I found one load, where is the other?

I have 2 loads for my .54 rifle, one heavy and one light. I like to shoot woods walks at various ML clubs and you only have to put a hole or bend one of their steel targets at 35 yds. with a heavy load to make them mad. On paper I use the 65 gr. of 3F which for my rifle is the most accurate and 30 gr. of 3F for the steel gongs where "10X" accuracy is not needed.

Black Hand said:

I have one load.
I want to know exactly how my rifle will perform when I am hunting, so EVERY other shot is practice for hunting. The load does not vary whether the target is paper, steel or meat...

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This is also my philosophy. An accurate load that works for everything. What could be sweeter than that?

My 54 cal with a 1:48 twist has two loads that I use.
1) 55gr 2F for target shooting mostly at 25 yards. This load is dead on at 25 yards and very pleasant to shoot.
2) 110gr 2F for hunting. This load is about 2 inches high at 25 yards but allows me to assume a "flat" trajectory out to 125 yards. By flat, I mean that I don't worry about compensation for bullet drop (or rise) for shots within that range.

nessmuk said:

I like to shoot woods walks at various ML clubs and you only have to put a hole or bend one of their steel targets at 35 yds. with a heavy load to make them mad.

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As one who spends hours making and repairing targets, I appreciate considerate shooters like yourself.. You make a good argument for the less than "magnum" load... :thumbsup: :hatsoff: :bow:

Hi All , I went t a silhouette shoot with my muzzle loader and shot my targets offhand and came second to a young lass shooting a .22 hornet while sitting with her back against a fence seems they had to use a sledge hammer to straighten their targets after I had finished and I never got an invite to shoot there again seems the loud bang put them off ,they were also unimpressed by the fact that I cleaned the rams at 100 Yards .. The turkeys were my down fall should have used shot for them . you think

Colorado Clyde said:

nessmuk said:

I like to shoot woods walks at various ML clubs and you only have to put a hole or bend one of their steel targets at 35 yds. with a heavy load to make them mad.

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As one who spends hours making and repairing targets, I appreciate considerate shooters like yourself.. You make a good argument for the less than "magnum" load... :thumbsup: :hatsoff: :bow:

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LOL, maybe take a look at AR500 targets instead of scrap metal. I have targets with thousands of hits from not just BP but a lot of "unmentionables" as well. Except for the many dozens of layers of white paint, you would almost swear they are new...
A properly hung AR500 plate will give many dcades of flawless service to any BP load you could possibly launch at it. (Except for maybe a cannon)

First, there is historic precedence where they used "Two Loads" in both the Flintlock and Percussion periods. Quite often they found the best light load for small game hunting and doubled it for larger game/long range. George had some great quotes about using their standard measure and doubling that charge for big game or longer distance.

There is a reason almost every rifle has two best accuracy loads. It has to do with internal ballistics and where the ball leaves the muzzle at either the top or bottom of the vibrational wave - whichever that rifle prefers. So the "Old Boys" knew their stuff even though most of them did not understand ballistics AND they saved very expensive/hard to get powder that way. Of course if they were primarily hide, meat or market hunters of deer and other large game, they probably always had the heavier charge loaded.

I won't argue about using only one heavy/hunting load for target and hunting. Many folks don't spend a lot of range time and if they don't, then that's the way to go. If someone wants to shoot the heavy load all the time, that is their choice.

In my case, most of my shooting was at 25 and 50 yards and the lighter load was more accurate for that. However, when the range is 100 yards, then I load the heavier accuracy/hunting load - which is also my hunting load.

Gus

I am always confused when these "two good load" threads come along, because I have consistently found that my guns will shoot most any powder charge with very good accuracy. I have always just picked a charge which gives me the trajectory or the power I want, and never found one which wouldn't do the job. My .40 caliber, for instance, shoots and has shot 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 55, 60, 65 and 70 grains 3F Goex, with the same ball, patch and lube, and all are more than adequate.

Gus, can you remind me when I posted that about the old boys having two loads, one twice the other? I can't remember doing that. At my age that doesn't mean I didn't do it. :haha: If I did, I want look in my database to see what it was based on.

Spence

LOL, maybe take a look at AR500 targets instead of scrap metal. I have targets with thousands of hits from not just BP but a lot of "unmentionables" as well. Except for the many dozens of layers of white paint, you would almost swear they are new...
A properly hung AR500 plate will give many dcades of flawless service to any BP load you could possibly launch at it

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Yeah I now own three sizes of AR500 3/8" plates, which I got because one of my offspring like stuff that's modern, which has barely marred the surface, but also because I can contribute in helping a woods walk or a novelty shoot, etc.

Soft lead roundball?....pure lead only causes the cheap spray paint to flake off. Makes a lovely "ding" sound, and because it's moving a lot slower than a modern bullet, there's a nice pause at say 100 yards when going for the 8" plate. BAND...., Ping!

LD

Loyalist Dave said:

Yeah I now own three sizes of AR500 3/8" plates, which I got because one of my offspring like stuff that's modern, which has barely marred the surface, but also because I can contribute in helping a woods walk or a novelty shoot, etc.

Soft lead roundball?....pure lead only causes the cheap spray paint to flake off. Makes a lovely "ding" sound, and because it's moving a lot slower than a modern bullet, there's a nice pause at say 100 yards when going for the 8" plate. BAND...., Ping!

LD

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I am with you on that. I enjoy the visual and audible feedback that goes with it as well. I host a black powder gong match and now have enough steel to set up 5 - 3 and 4 gong stages. We shoot at 40-50-75 AND 100 meters. The big 16" gong sounds like a church bell!

George said:

My .40 caliber, for instance, shoots and has shot 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 55, 60, 65 and 70 grains 3F Goex, with the same ball, patch and lube, and all are more than adequate.

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Yeah, but you know what to expect from those loads and shoot accordingly.
Most (young or new) shooters don't have that experience nor patience.
That's kind of the basis of my earlier comment, if the OP has found his only most accurate load at near max for the rifle (and is convinced of that) he's not going to be able to find another accurate load,, he has defeated himself.
(no offense intended)
It takes alot of experimental shooting,, usually years of shooting these things,, right?

George said:

Gus, can you remind me when I posted that about the old boys having two loads, one twice the other? I can't remember doing that. At my age that doesn't mean I didn't do it. :haha: If I did, I want look in my database to see what it was based on.

Spence

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Hi Spence,

Glad you chimed in. Well, since I officially have joined the ranks of Senior Citizens a couple weeks ago, can I claim that as not remembering exactly where/when you posted it? :haha:

I know we were discussing period powder measures found with original Shot Pouches, usually having been of what we would consider a "light load" and not a "normal" hunting charge. It may; have been in some discussions on 18th or early 19th century Rifle Accuracy we have done some time ago?

Gus

necchi said:

George said:

My .40 caliber, for instance, shoots and has shot 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 55, 60, 65 and 70 grains 3F Goex, with the same ball, patch and lube, and all are more than adequate.

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Yeah, but you know what to expect from those loads and shoot accordingly.
Most (young or new) shooters don't have that experience nor patience.
That's kind of the basis of my earlier comment, if the OP has found his only most accurate load at near max for the rifle (and is convinced of that) he's not going to be able to find another accurate load,, he has defeated himself.
(no offense intended)
It takes alot of experimental shooting,, usually years of shooting these things,, right?

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Right Took me 15 years to get "acceptable" accuracy from a CVA bobcat .36. And I'd do 15 more on a single gun before I would switch over to smacking a lil white ball all over a manicured yard into a fabricated mole hole :grin: (did that ONCE and hit a cactus, a rabbitt and a large window:shocked2: A few gentlemen that hounded me into playong agreed I should not play again (happy gilmore here) :rotf:

ff
I found that my virtual golfing is equal to my actual golfing.

Drive = not bad

Lay-up onto the green = pretty good

putt 5-12 times = IT'S IN THE HOLE! :haha:

___________


Now Shooting AT golf-balls as targets, that's much more rewarding.

:hijacked:

WAIT..., we were talking about shooting with two what now?

LD

It doesn't have to be all that difficult. Last year I decided I wanted to dial back on my heavy hunting load in my .54 caliber plains rifle, 110 grains 3F. For my present situation I thought 80 grains would be appropriate, so I tried that. Two short sessions, one to see that the new load shot an excellent group, one to file the sights to position the group, and the gun was ready. I didn't have to try any other charges...85 or 75...to find a "sweet spot".

A thought...if it so happened that I was right, that most any charge would shoot with adequate accuracy, then those trying to develop two accurate loads wouldn't have much trouble roving their point, would they?

Spence

Artificer said:

I know we were discussing period powder measures found with original Shot Pouches, usually having been of what we would consider a "light load" and not a "normal" hunting charge.

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I remember posting info about various methods the old boys used to choose a load, 1/4 to 1/2 ball weight, multiples of the volume of the ball mold, powder as tall as wide in the barrel, etc. What I don't recall is any suggestion by the old boys of using two charges of a light load, etc. Maybe it was a suggestion of that made by someone else in the thread.

Spence

As I remember, it was some original chargers with the original pouch, only had enough room for what we would call a "light load" and they doubled it for long range/big game. Another quote or two was about doubling the charge for longer range.

If it was not you, then my apology. I may be mistaken because you have offered so many excellent period quotes on this forum.

Gus

I am always confused when these "two good load" threads come along, because I have consistently found that my guns will shoot most any powder charge with very good accuracy.

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Same here.

IME: The vast majority of slow twist rifles shoot patched round balls to the same point of aim using any reasonable powder charge.

My 1/48" twist .50 caliber rifle puts patched round balls driven by 50 grains and 80 grains of powder into the same group at 50 yards.

Okie Hog said:

My 1/48" twist .50 caliber rifle puts patched round balls driven by 50 grains and 80 grains of powder into the same group at 50 yards.

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Yup, exactly,, but just to be the devils advocate,,
, what happens at 75 or 100 with those "same at 50" loads?
Is there no difference then?

Common sense dictates that as you decrease the powder charge you also decrease the distance...