Native American ball loads???

Skychief said:

Reading the book and seeing the light weight guns of those days, and, understanding that they shot them more than we do today, has me questioning just how much powder is really necessary to down whitetails at 75 yards or less.

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I can tell you with 100% certainty that 60 grains of 3f under a .530 ball drops them just fine out to 50 yards. That's the only load my wife uses, and she won't shoot past 50 yards. But at that range we've never recovered a single ball from deer, all shot broadside through the lungs.

One thing I recall reading about the loads they used was all the pieces of blanket wadding laying on the ground.

BrownBear said:

Skychief said:

Reading the book and seeing the light weight guns of those days, and, understanding that they shot them more than we do today, has me questioning just how much powder is really necessary to down whitetails at 75 yards or less.

Click to expand...

I can tell you with 100% certainty that 60 grains of 3f under a .530 ball drops them just fine out to 50 yards. That's the only load my wife uses, and she won't shoot past 50 yards. But at that range we've never recovered a single ball from deer, all shot broadside through the lungs.

One thing I recall reading about the loads they used was all the pieces of blanket wadding laying on the ground.

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I was under a cedar tree in a light drizzle one year. The branches came right down to the ground but there were plenty of windows to look through. And there was lots of ”˜bedding under the tree. And two good trails passed by that tree at less then twenty yards. I hear something coming and ready my self to shoot. A coyote came loping down the trail and right toward me. Then tried to get under the tree looking for a dry place to sleep. Stuck his nose right under coming in to the ”˜little room’. Then saw me. He rolled over him self to get away and ran like a ”˜whipped dog’.
I was dressed out and had on a green duffel coat. I wore orange to my spot but took off the vest to sit on and changed my hat to a tan voyager cap. No camouflage or such. I wouldn’t think there was enough rain to cover my smell from a coyote... but there he was. It wasn’t the first or last time I’ve been in arms reach of game, but it was one of the funniest.

I use 75 gr FFg in my 16 bore (0.648" ball in a 0.662" bore).

Very pleasant to shoot. Apparently not so much to receive.

Look at the "dram equivalent" loads on shot shells and some slugs. One dram is 27.35 grains. So a 20 gauge 2-3/4 dram equivalent charge works out to 75 grains (I suppose FF granulation black powder).

My main deer rifle is a 62. I shoot 80 gns of FFG an have yet to recover a ball from any of the deer it has taken. I dont shoot a 62 for power. I shoot it cause it punches 2 big blood leaking holes an in these thickets in bama you better either put it down in its tracks or have a good trail to follow. The big 600 ball does a fine job of both

Loyalist Dave said:

Here's Another Theory...,

There's an old method of loading a smooth bore, and I think it was sometimes used for a rifle.

Put the round ball in the palm of your hand. Pour powder over the ball in your hand, until the ball is covered. Use your thumb to anchor the ball in your palm, and pour the palm-full of powder down the bore.....

Now, you could simply follow the powder with the ball, OR probably get better results by stuffing tow, a piece of hornet's nest, etc down after the powder, then follow that with the ball, and something to hold the ball in place.

So I'd suggest you try that but pour the powder into a funnel in a measure, then see how much powder you got.

:idunno:

LD

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I have loaded like this a few times and for a random amount of powder it works out pretty good for hunting accuracy. Now I know you will never win your pick off the blanket loading like that, but if you want to put a hole in Bambi at 50 yards or closer it works just fine.

had a doe once that walked up to me and layed down about 10 ft away from me and took an all day nap

A long time ago, there was an article published in Muzzle Blasts that was about pouring powder over a ball held in the palm of a hand.
After pouring the powder, the author carefully scraped the powder off onto a sheet of paper and then measured the weight of the load.

The author decided that different hands might give different amounts so he had his wife and his daughter help with the experiment.
He did the test several times using his hand, his wifes hand and his daughters hand and then averaged them to come up with his numbers.

I don't recall what the weights of the powder loads averaged but I do know they were what we would consider as a "light" powder load.

I think the values were something like 40 grains for a .45 and 50 grains for a .50.

The thing I took away from the story was, using this method definitely would not create a unsafe powder load.

As for the Native Americans using light powder loads, who could blame them?

The only places he could buy it was trading posts or from traders (who were notoriously stingy).
If a small powder load would do the job, it would be wasteful to use more and tracking a wounded animal was easy to those who knew how.

tracking a wounded animal was easy to those who knew how.

:thumbsup: There life was feeding and clothing themselves and of course fighting enemy(s). I bet about the worst tracker "in the day" would whip a modern day guy (and I have seen a real real good tracker find a gut shot deer, took us 4.9 miles but the dude did it!)

Kinda back to the argument of magnum loads for hunting :hmm: I personaly shoot the most accurate load hunting, usually 65-80 grains for .50-.58. My stuff is as dead as the 150 grain sabot shooters with scopes n 209 caps :bull:

Zonie said:

As for the Native Americans using light powder loads, who could blame them?

The only places he could buy it was trading posts or from traders (who were notoriously stingy).
If a small powder load would do the job, it would be wasteful to use more and tracking a wounded animal was easy to those who knew how.

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A look at the few surviving powder measures convinces me that the Native Americans were not the only ones weighing effectiveness against economy. Purty darned skimpy loads the guys were shooting unless they were double- or triple-pouring with those little measures.

I've played with measures and shooting a fair bit and come around to my own solution. My measures for 50 and 54 cal are only 35 grains. Dandy for small game and general noise making with only a single pour. Dandy and deadly for deer with 2 pours. Loaded for bear with 3 pours. My standard measures for 58 and 62 calibers isn't a heck of a lot bigger at only 40 grains.

Interesting enough, they look a whole lot like the pics of original measures I've seen. Haven't tried single pours for deer yet (and probably never will), but I'm betting inside 50 yards any of those would work just fine.

But hey.... I'm a modern kinda guy and a powder wastrel, so no sweat using 70 or 80 grains for deer! :rotf: