Black Mag XP

Has anyone heard of or tried Black Mag XP? I read about it in the Feb. 2010 issue of Muzzle Blasts magazine.

It is supposed to be acceptable in flintlocks as both the main charge and pan powder.

Too rich for my blood. $30 for 10 oz. And $9 for 150 gr of Flash. I get Goex for $16 a pound. I shoot too much to pay those prices.

The Author of that article is a self admitted zip gun shooter- and that is what he hunts with all the time. He admits he doesn't know much about flintlocks. He says he never could get his gun to fire reliably enough to use it hunting.

For that reason alone, I would not believe ANYTHING he writes about anything that uses flint for ignition- ESPECIALLY when its NOT Black Powder. He has Absolutely NO Credibility with me.

I will wait to see what others say about this "NEW" powder. His column each month in Muzzle Blasts irritates the heck out of me, but the NMLRA is trying to be an inclusive organization, and we have to suffer with the zip guns, their manufacturers, and advocates as a result. I personally think the decision to promote them has driven away more members than it has gained for the NMLRA. The kind of people who buy those zip guns are Not the kind of folk who join the NMLRA.

Has anyone else ever noticed that the Zip Gun manufacturers don't offer any shotguns??? Or pistols?

paulvallandigham said:

The Author of that article is a self admitted zip gun shooter- and that is what he hunts with all the time. He admits he doesn't know much about flintlocks. He says he never could get his gun to fire reliably enough to use it hunting.

For that reason alone, I would not believe ANYTHING he writes about anything that uses flint for ignition- ESPECIALLY when its NOT Black Powder. He has Absolutely NO Credibility with me.

I will wait to see what others say about this "NEW" powder. His column each month in Muzzle Blasts irritates the heck out of me, but the NMLRA is trying to be an inclusive organization, and we have to suffer with the zip guns, their manufacturers, and advocates as a result. I personally think the decision to promote them has driven away more members than it has gained for the NMLRA. The kind of people who buy those zip guns are Not the kind of folk who join the NMLRA.

Has anyone else ever noticed that the Zip Gun manufacturers don't offer any shotguns??? Or pistols?

Click to expand...

I have only recently joined NMLRA, so I am not familiar with Mr. Raychard. It is very intresting how he said flintlocks HAD their day in the sun. Making statements like that may in fact turn would be flinters to take a second thought and buy one of those damn cheaply made, plastic stocked, ugly zip guns instead.

There's also a article in the SASS paper, he claims its a replacement for Pinnicle powder.
But very pricey as noted I'll stick to real BP.

I just sent them a question,they claim an infinite shelf life. :idunno:

paulvallandigham said:

The Author of that article is a self admitted zip gun shooter- and that is what he hunts with all the time. He admits he doesn't know much about flintlocks. He says he never could get his gun to fire reliably enough to use it hunting.

For that reason alone, I would not believe ANYTHING he writes about anything that uses flint for ignition- ESPECIALLY when its NOT Black Powder. He has Absolutely NO Credibility with me.

I will wait to see what others say about this "NEW" powder. His column each month in Muzzle Blasts irritates the heck out of me, but the NMLRA is trying to be an inclusive organization, and we have to suffer with the zip guns, their manufacturers, and advocates as a result. I personally think the decision to promote them has driven away more members than it has gained for the NMLRA. The kind of people who buy those zip guns are Not the kind of folk who join the NMLRA.

Has anyone else ever noticed that the Zip Gun manufacturers don't offer any shotguns??? Or pistols?

Click to expand...

i wasn't really impressed with the article either, and i'm very skeptical of the new flash powder. but it could be a good thing for guys who can't get real BP. i believe knight offered a shotgun complete with the revolutionary new "Jug choke" choke tube.

flintlock62 said:

Has anyone heard of or tried Black Mag XP? I read about it in the Feb. 2010 issue of Muzzle Blasts magazine.

It is supposed to be acceptable in flintlocks as both the main charge and pan powder.

Click to expand...

OK, guys you got to pull the dummy (me) along, what is Black Mag XP?

it's a newer sub, they just developed a flash powder version of it that is supposed to be able to prime a flintlock with. there was an article in this months muzzleblasts.

Mr Raychard's article said quite clearly that this "XP Flash" powder is intended for use in the pan only .

The company that makes it says the same thing in this link about that powder.
Black Mag XP FLASH powder

Under no circumstances should it be used as a primary powder charge in the barrel.

As for Mr. Raychard's articles, he is a regular contributor who does hunting related stories.
He is an ardent believer in all things modern and seldom if ever mentions traditional weapons or the use of them for hunting.
With the exception of Mr. Raychards column and an ad or two sometimes appearing in the magazine I seldom see anything in Muzzle Blasts which even mentions modern muzzleloaders.

I agree with Paul. Raychard single handedly has done more to irritate and drive away Traditional hunters and others from the NMLRA's membership than all of the other modern shooters and companies combined.

ebiggs said:

flintlock62 said:

Has anyone heard of or tried Black Mag XP? I read about it in the Feb. 2010 issue of Muzzle Blasts magazine.

It is supposed to be acceptable in flintlocks as both the main charge and pan powder.

Click to expand...

OK, guys you got to pull the dummy (me) along, what is Black Mag XP?

Click to expand...

Black Mag XP is an ascorbic acid based black power sub that allegedly develops 50% less chamber pressure and is non corrosive. On developing less pressure, I think it would be great for anyone who wants to shoot their originals, which would be less taxing on the older barrels and stocks.

Black Mag Flash is for the pan. However, I have read that to take the XP, roll it between finger and thumb to break it down for the pan.

It is expensive at $30 for a 10 oz. bottle, but I also understand that much less is used to acheive the same velocity.

I do plan on getting some in the near future for evaluation purposes. I am sticking with genuine BP, however.

Zonie said:

Mr Raychard's article said quite clearly that this "XP Flash" powder is intended for use in the pan only .

The company that makes it says the same thing in this link about that powder.
Black Mag XP FLASH powder

Under no circumstances should it be used as a primary powder charge in the barrel.

As for Mr. Raychard's articles, he is a regular contributor who does hunting related stories.
He is an ardent believer in all things modern and seldom if ever mentions traditional weapons or the use of them for hunting.
With the exception of Mr. Raychards column and an ad or two sometimes appearing in the magazine I seldom see anything in Muzzle Blasts which even mentions modern muzzleloaders.

I agree with Paul. Raychard single handedly has done more to irritate and drive away Traditional hunters and others from the NMLRA's membership than all of the other modern shooters and companies combined.

Click to expand...

how can one guys article about modern BP hunting, the only article in the whole magazine, drive people away from the NMLRA?

When I joined the NMLRA back in the 1960s, the organization promoted Traditional styled MLers and provided matches to shoot these guns. Underhammers got a lot of criticism, in those days, because they were " Different". Even Mule ear actions got grumbles from the traditional crowd.

There were no Shuetzen Style Rifle matches; there were no Black Powder Cartridge matches.

When Clark Frazier and his family began shooting traditional percussion rifle courses with his custom made rifles, using thumbhole stocks, and Olympic style aperture sights, the Grumbling began in earnest, and people began to leave. The Officers seemed to be charmed and excited by having a " Celebrity" shoot the matches,( and win them running away) with these new style- Olympic style rifles.

When the Zip Gun companies orchestrated a move to put their people on the board, and get their guns accepted for the national matches, that is when the exodus began in earnest. You can see it in the falling numbers of members since. The Officers want you to believe that this is ONLY due to attrition from an aging membership, with more and more members dying off. But, that is NOT the whole story.

I give the Officers credit in that they have the zip guns shoot in separate matches, and do not allow them to compete in traditional percussion and flintlock matches. But, a lot of traditional people, who have supported the organization for many years, simply resent walking down commercial row and seeing all the Zip Guns, and paraphernalia being sold there.

These are people much like the membership here, who have spent many hours learning how to make these traditional side lock rifles shoot, and shoot well enough to win matches. They believe part of the reason you get into MLing it to learn all this lore again, and do it by listening and watching what others do, because mostly, there is no single way of doing it for all guns, so that a book can be written with step by step instruction on how to become an instant champion shooter.

The Challenge of overcoming the limits of the equipment, and shooting good scores is part of the draw to this sport. Seeing the cheaply made, zip guns on the firing line at Friendship, even if they are shooting a different match, simply goes counter to what MLing as a sport is all about, in the minds of Traditionalists.

I am old enough to believe the Traditionalists are correct. I differ with them in that I prefer to remain, to elect better thinking directors to the board, and to out last these clowns!

I see that Knight has closed its doors. Some states have already restricted their MLer deer seasons so that the zip guns can no longer be used. If other states join in imposing those restrictions, the zip guns will be a mere pimple on the annals of history. :thumbsup:

the inlines aren't going to go away, and most states will continue to allow them, state DNR's are desperate in most places to reduce deer herds. deer are ecologically rats with hooves, tasty rats i'll admit. they eat any type of mast and brows young hardwoods to shrubs. we would not have the beautiful hardwood forests that we have today in part had deer not been extirpated from almost thier entire native range. it is well documented the the USFS the effect of over browsing on forest regeneration. i've seen it myself in college on oak regeneration.

as for the traditionalist being run off by the inclusion of inlines in friendship matches, i was there a couple of years ago and didn't even see one shot so it seems to be a minority to me. i didn't like seeing the inline stuff sold on commercial row either so i can sympathise with you there paul, but there seems to be plenty of everything else sold too. you don't have to shop at the inline store to still go to friendship and have fun. ditching the NMLRA because of one mans article or allowing inlines to compete in a totally seperate match seems to be petty and silly to me. with all due respect of course.

The board ballots are in the current Magazine. Are any of the listed candidates pro traditional?

Sorry, I have not looked. I had better get to it and get my ballot in. I know Barbie Chambers is Pro Traditional, for one! :rotf: :surrender:

"
how can one guys article about modern BP hunting, the only article in the whole magazine, drive people away from the NMLRA? "
--------------
I'll probably get some people mad by saying this but, There is a lot of pure, outright hatred on the part of many traditional hunters towards the modern muzzleloading guns and for the people who use them during Muzzleloading Hunting seasons.

This hatred extends to any and all organizations who who allow advertising, photos, or articles written which deal with these guns.

This Forum at one time had a special area reserved for the discussion of these guns and it created a total war, not only in that specific forum area but it boiled over into the other forums as well.
This is the reason that discussion of In-Line rifles is no longer allowed here.

There are many others who simply feel that the NMLRA, who's Mission Statement says, in part,
"The National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association exists to promote, support, nurture, and perserve NMLRA"s and our nation's rich historical heritage in the sport of muzzleloading..." (underline added by me), is doing a great dis-service to the spirit of Traditional Muzzleloading and its history.

These people point at Raychard's monthly articles, which never support Traditional guns, as an indication of the organizations failure to live up to its own stated Mission.

During my 15 years of membership I have seen the membership numbers shrink from around 25,000 to less than 18,000 and I know, after reading a number of posts written by people who intentionally dropped out of the NMLRA that the reasons were the Modern Muzzleloading guns and the NMLRA's acceptance of them.

i guess it's the adject hatred that i don't understand. i don't like inlines, but i don't understand the hatred of them. anyway i'll drop the subject now.

Correct me if I am wrong;
You said black mag powder produced 50% less pressure. You then added you use less to Achieve the same velocity. I don't see how that would work. Could you explain? I am just learning.
Len

Zonnie and medic302, that is and has been my point all along. Why the outright hatred? I agree the in-lines should not be allowed in muzzle loading hunting seasons because of the distinct advantage the have over side locks. They belong in the regular firearms season. But hey if a guy wants to own and shoot one, I am not going to hate him or call him names. You know even on this board the “hatred” really only exists in the flintlock forums and not so much in the cap lock forum. Everybody needs to be more tolerant of others. We have this great board to discuss our love of (true)((