Will PA conicals lead the barrel

[Pacobillie]

I got my hands on a box of PA conicals 240 grain bullets in .50 caliber. The stated diameter of the bullet is .512

If I shoot these in a .50 caliber TC Hawken slow twist 1:66 barrel, will I get significant leading of the barrel? The bullets are pre-lubed.

 

[fishspike]

Depends on the speed up to 1200-1300 feet per second should be fine after that leading is likely.

Bob

 

[Kentuckywindage]

no, you have to push lead bullets around 1800 fps before lead fouling can be an issue.

 

[Walks with fire]

I have read where 1400 fps. is as fast as pure lead can be pushed before leading occurs so what I do with them is one wrap of paper patching. I need to clean off the sticky lube, paper patch it and then lube them. I don't worry about it sliding off the charge because they are nice and snug in my barrel with the wrap and I can push em as fast as I want and not worry about leading. A 100 grain charge of 3f gets it out the gate around 1700 fps.

It's like .54 ball weight in a .50 caliber. I still think a .54 ball is better though.

 

[Don]

I have to disagree with the others here. I shot PA conicals out of one of my rifles. After about 6 shots accuracy went south. Could be attributable to something else but when I got home to clean it I kept getting grey lead on my patches. Ended up using a chore boy on it to get it out. I wasn't using hot powder charges either only about 70 grains of Pyrodex RS. The rifle was clean prior to that day and I had only used patched round ball in it before that day. The PA conicals were very accurate so I will use them again but maybe I give them some extra lube to see if that helps.

Don

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I'm going to have to go with Don on this, I get plenty of leading while shooting BP revolvers with conical bullets and they are going less than 800 fps. One other factor to consider is the condition of the bore. Even the least amount of roughness in the bore will attract lead like a magnet.

 

[Don]

The rifle I was using was new or lightly used so the rifling was probably still sharp. Perhaps over time as the rifling gets burnished I'll have less leading.

Don

 

[Pacobillie]

I have to disagree with the others here. I shot PA conicals out of one of my rifles. After about 6 shots accuracy went south. Could be attributable to something else but when I got home to clean it I kept getting grey lead on my patches. Ended up using a chore boy on it to get it out. I wasn't using hot powder charges either only about 70 grains of Pyrodex RS. The rifle was clean prior to that day and I had only used patched round ball in it before that day. The PA conicals were very accurate so I will use them again but maybe I give them some extra lube to see if that helps.

Don

How much of a chore is it to get the lead out?

 

[Don]

It took a fair amount of scrubbing. I'd run a patch soaked in Hoppes 9 down the bore(after the initial cleaning)then run a jag wrapped with some choreboy up and down several times followed by several patches. Did that routine 6 or 7 times before I said good enough. It was a pain but I'd do it again cause those PA conicals shot well at 100 yards.

Don

 

[Kentuckywindage]

All i shoot is lead conicals, Its no harder to clean than patched ball fouling.

A rough bore will be a pain in the rear end to start off with.

Hoppes sucks IMO, I use birchwood casey 2 in 1 bore scrubber and after allowing it to sit and do its job for 5 minutes i use a nylon bore brush and she comes out nice and shiny. Of course my bores are nice and smooth as i lap them with copper conicals.

 

[stude 283]

Could you expand on how you lap the bore with copper conicals?I've got a couple that just don't seem to smooth up.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

copper conicals are a great way to smooth out a barrel due to the hardness of them. I use the Thor conical in .500 to .501" depending which fits my bore the best and then i just fire it about 20 times and its silky smooth. They get even better the longer you shoot them because the base expands into the rifling but thats basically it. Along with some JB Bore paste for a final cleaning.

 

[crockett]

I think there are some "if's" involved here. On modern type guns using a hardened or alloy lead the general thought it that over say 1400 feet per second the bore might start having a lead fouling issue. I use lead bullets in modern type handguns- the top veliocity is maybe 1200 freet a second and I always have issues with lead- not too bad- but definately some fouling in the throat area.
On the soft lead of a muzzle loader, will it foul a bore. Try "drawing" on a piece of paper with the conical. You can write with it so.. IMHO it will foul a bore. That is one BIG reason I really favor a PRB. Same thing with black powder substitutes- often MORE corrosive than black powder and sometimes harder to ignite. So.... stay with what these guns were designed for- good old black powder and patched round balls.

 

[crockett]

And.....on another thread I had suggested a data base on real world results between conicals and PRB, etc- on actual game. Once again I realize there are a lot of if's and I'm not arguing that the heavier conical will be moving at a higher velocity at longer distances BUT- where is the trade off? 70 yards? 100 yards? 150 yards? I'm not sure how far off a lot of game is actually killed. Years ago I and another hunter ran some tests- we cut out deer sized profiles out of cardboard- about the same color as a deer- and added wood stakes, and then paced off 150 yards and stuck them in the ground in brushy, dried grass and scrub. We walked back to the starting point, turned around, and had a real problem even seeing the cardboard cut outs at 150 yards- let alone trying to get them in open sights. So... if the reality is 70 yards to 100 yards- the truth may be that the PRB kills just as good as the conical. In Colorado- the open areas might create a somewhat different situation but I still think 100 yards is about maximum even in open country. I have read just about all of the mountain man diaries/journals and it seems they would typically crawl up to game and shoot at about 100 yards.

 

[Walks with fire]

I do believe that a soft lead patched round ball fired at the velocity real black powder provides is about as good as it's gonna get inside 100 yards with open sights.
It took me quite a while to work my way back to a roundball but I am quite certain it will be my choice from here on out in my flinters. I won't have it any other way regardless if something else has more power or not.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Lowest shot was 75 yards, the upper 2 were fired from 100 yards with 90gr goex 2f, and a 250gr conical. I much prefer conicals in Colorado. Plus i am only 8 to 9" low at 200 yards. This will be my elk buster this year.

Powder fouling, cap fouling,lead fouling, lube fouling.... Who cares? CLEAN IT if it needs cleaning :hatsoff:

 

[Walks with fire]

What twist rate is the barrel and is that a copper conical called a Thor bullet? Great shooting by the way and should work just dandy; put one of those in the vitals and your hunts over.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

What twist rate is the barrel and is that a copper conical called a Thor bullet? Great shooting by the way and should work just dandy; put one of those in the vitals and your hunts over.

Thats correct. Its a deep groove 1:48 twist barrel. No clue of the maker as the barrel is unmarked. Thats exactly what i am hoping for come september!

 

[Stumpkiller]

Not on this website/forum, please.

Rule #4

We do not discuss copper and/or jacketed, plastic/polymer tipped bullets, sabots, power belts, or other 'plastic-wrapped' bullets.