Traditions Crockett

[Zonie]

The kind of looseness I'm speaking of is very obvious and from your description I would say that is not the problem.

Under normal circumstances the tightness, or force needed to ram the patched ball will get a little easier as the load goes down the barrel.

With a ringed barrel like I was speaking of the ramming load will be something like 3 pounds and then suddenly will be something like 2 ounces which then returns to the 2 1/2- 3 pounds before the ball hits the powder charge.

Like I said, it was only a guess and I think it was wrong.

Have you collected any of your fired patches?
I don't recall that you mentioned their condition and they are the first thing to look at when a gun is shooting inaccurately.

If they show signs of tearing, ripping or burning thru where the ball contacted the bore then that is the problem.

Without knowing the fired patches condition, everything is a guess.

By the way, the outer area of a fired patch will be very frayed and occasionally it will even be missing some material but as long as the area where the ball was against the bore is in good condition your gun should shoot much better than you indicate yours is.

 

[ffnh243]

Mine aint worth spit if the bore is clean. try firing 2 fouling shots, I use a 40 grain charge with just a patch no ball. after that I load up my regular charge and she gets better with every shot and I dont swab between while hunting. at the rang I just run 1 patch of borebutter after every 10 shots

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you aren't reading each spent patch, you really have no idea what is going on inside your barrel with any of these loads---- and neither can we! :shocked2: :bow:

I don't think you are getting anything near consistent cleaning using a cotton Swab between shots. Use CLEANING patches, damped with spit, or water, followed by a DRY CLEANING patch to remove any remaining water. In Sub-freezing temperatures, use cheap Isopropyl alcohol to dampened the first patch down, instead of spit, so the patch doesn't freeze. UNless a cotton swab is thoroughly cleaned between each use, its main used is to quickly run a large cleaning patch down the bore to WIPE off some of the LOOSE crud. But, IMHO, and experience, that swab and patch rarely if ever removes ALL of the crud, unless several damp patches are run down the barrel. even then, the swab won't get down into the corners of the grooves in a rifle.

Instead of using a Swab, use a bore bristle. I prefer the old bronze bristled variety, but have used some of the new nylon bristled ones in some modern revolvers with success. The Bristles will stick Through the thin, damp cleaning patch, scraping the corners of the grooves free of crud, which is then soaked up by the cleaning patch, and removed. A dry patch after that soaks up any remaining moisture, either from your patch, or from condensation in the fired barrel.

As to recommended loads:

1.check your nipple FIRST to see if it is not already shot out- that means, the small hole through the nipple is now enlarged. Most factory nipples are a joke. Replace any nipple that is worn if you want good accuracy.There are wire gauges you can buy to tell you when these holes are worn out. The Smaller the caliber, the higher the pressure is on nipples, and the more quickly they wear out.

2. You have to know how deep those grooves are in that barrel, and what you actual bore diameter is. Measure them. The groove depth will help you pick the correct thickness of patch material. .010" patches have proven too thin in many rifles. You will find that out when you examine the spent patches. They will be torn, or burned.

3. You should not need a huge charge of FFFg in any .32 cal. rifle to get single hole accuracy off a rest at 25 yds. Have another shooter shoot your rifle to see if its YOU, the gun, or problems with the components. Some of us simply can't Shoot open sights well. if you were not trained how to do it, or if you never were trained how to properly shoot off a bench rest, your groups will suffer.

4. The most common ball diameter used by most .32 shooters is the .310-0311" diameter ball. But, some use larger diameter balls for best accuracy- only .005" smaller than the actual bore diameter.( ie., .315") Use that with a .015-.020" thick patch. A lot of shooters like Mattress ticking when they find some that measures .018".

5.With those components, a powder charge of 15-20 grains should give you plenty of accuracy at 25 yds. For 50 yd. shooting, you may need to go up to 30 grains of powder, and some guns required more than that.

On really windy days, or on days with gusty winds, do NOT expect tiny groups, UNLESS you have been trained to read the winds. The light weight( approx. 42-45 grains) balls for a .32 simply cannot buck much of anything called "wind". The Ballistics Coefficient is simply too poor to allow much better group sizes when its windy out.

6. Stock fit can also be a serious problem for some shooters, even with guns that do not recoil much at all. If the stock is too short, or too straight, its next to impossible to get your sight alignment the same for shot after shot. This is a real problem with these small caliber rifles, when shot by tall men.

Finally, altho the spent patches will tell you this, provided you know how to read them, check the crown of your muzzle for burrs and sharp edges that may be cutting your patches when they are loaded into the barrel with the ball. You don't want this to be happening, as it destroys all attempt to get small groups regardless of how good a load combination you are using. If you don't know how to do this, ask an experienced MLer to help you check the gun for this kind of thing. :thumbsup:

 

[ffnh243]

P.S. my crockett hates substitute powders while my 32cal deerhuner eats anything :idunno:

 

[John Wasmuth]

Yer right, mine wont shoot well with any of the subs, matter of fact, the other Crockett rifle I had didnt like sub powder either. Stick with real black powder you'll be happier and so will the rifle.

 

[Ft. Jefferson]

MAC, I'm just on the Ohio side of the line, just north of I-70. If ya continue to have trouble with this, get with me and maybe we can meet up at a range sometime. Mine here at the house or the one down the road or at your convenience. Them's good guns and i believe we can get'er figured out. Good thing it ain't rocket science. Buzzard

 

[John Wasmuth]

Ft. thats really great of you man! :thumbsup:

 

[Micah Clark]

I've never been able to find the patches, but I hope to shoot it over snow this winter in hope of finding and observing the patch.

 

[Micah Clark]

This is great info you guys. . . thank you very much. I am in the midst of a project in our kitchen at the moment. Will study all these responses. . . and welcome others.
i just bought a digital caliper and think I can check the bore diameters in and out of the grooves.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Mac: If you don't have it, go to Dutch Schoultz website, and order his Black Powder Accuracy System. Its the best $19.95 you can spend on your education, and will teach you much you need to know to get this gun, and others you will acquire, how to shoot their best.
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

As for finding spent patches, shooting over snow is much harder than shooting over mowed grass when trying to see spent patches. Expect to find them, on a reasonably calm wind day, about 15-20 feet in front of the bench. If both direction and wind speed is relative constant, you will find all your spent patches in a small area.

Have someone stand next to and behind you to see where that first spent patch falls. After awhile, you will also be able to see them in front of your barrel, before you blink or "flinch" after the shot goes off. A .32 should be like shooting a .22LR rimfire cartridge in a rifle. No recoil to notice, and very little sight disturbance. You should be able to " FOLLOW THROUGH" your shot easily with that small caliber ball.

The spent patch leaves the ball about 10 feet from the muzzle and then follows an arc to the ground. Depending on whether you are sitting at a bench, or standing off-hand, the patch will land closer or farther than 15 feet. You will learn to look UNDER the smoke cloud to see the patch fluttering to the ground. :thumbsup:

 

[rawhide]

In mine I shoot 15 grains of 777 FFFg a cast .311 ball and a .010 patch lubed with olive oil. I won lots of squil gun championships with this load. I get sub moa of the bench. at 25 yards. at 50 I get 2 inch groups if the winds not blowing.

 

[Jim/OH]

Hi Mac, I shoot what some would consider a stiff load in mine, but it is "minute of squirrel head" out past 40 yds. I use 35 gr. of 3F Goax with a pre lubed patch and a .315 ball. Wipe between shots with a damp, then dry patch (tough to load without wipeing). Very accurate, and it cracks like it should when it goes off. :thumbsup:

Hope this helps, see ya, Jim/OH :hatsoff:

 

[BrownBear]

I haven't read through all the posts on a long thread, but I'll toss this out for the "just in case" side of your register.

When I got my Crockett there was a little bur in the muzzle crown, and it was a patch shredding fool. It was cutting the patches going in, and producing tattered pieces going out, no matter the powder charge. And lord new where that ball was going to land.

I did a little reading, pressed a piece of 400 grit wet/dry cloth on the muzzle with my thumb, and spun it around a few times with good thumb pressure. Pretty quick the bur was gone, and when I next loaded it, so was the patch shredding. Ever since then it has been a tack driver.

 

[Micah Clark]

This is all very helpful . . . I have looked for patches and have not found them after shooting . . . much to my disappointment. I thought shooting over snow might help, assuming the patch would be fairly dark in color.

I am looking for a tear or burn hole, (though I am using a felt wad over the powder, so I think a burn is highly unlikely) in which a burr or sharp rifling is cutting a patch that is too thin. . . right?

 

[hanshi]

About all I can help with is to add my load to the ones listed. I use 30grns of 3f, a .311 Lee cast ball and a .015" patch lubed with Hoppes #9 Plus BP lube. It shoots to the same poi from the first shot to the last shot and the load is pretty snug but not too tight for the rifles ramrod. Groups at 40yds can come under an inch and around an inch at 50+yds. The load is no more destructive on body shot squirrels than a .22LR hollow point. Head shots are best.

 

[R.M.]

I'm finding this thread extremely interesting.
I just acquired a NIB unfired old Cherokee in .32
I've only had to the range one time, but the 35 or so shots out of it were disappointing to say the least.
You guys have given me lots to build on.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned. At least some of the Crockett's had a very strange breechplug arrangement. There was a gap between the front of the plug and the rear of the bore with a taper reamed there sort of like a revolver forcing cone. If you run a patch on a cleaning jag down to the bottom of the bore you can feel it, in fact it tends to snag patches there. If you have that sort of breeching you will need to use enough powder to keep the ball in the bore above that taper.