Track of the wolf

[navaho]

Received a AAA Curly Maple pre-inletted Hawken half stock from Track of the Wolf, very disapointed. Stock was not as clean or as figured as I expected it to be. What I want to do is make my first rifle. Can someone provide a contact for a medium difficult kit that I can cut my teeth on? I want something with some quality to it mybe in the 4 - 500.00 range.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Is this your first go at a kit build? If so, do not expect a drop in. TOW and other such kits are more alike a parts kit, there will be considerable hand work to be done on all.

Dry wood may not show the figure, wipe down the stock with plain water, this will give a better indication as to how figure will look once finished.

 

[navaho]

As far as the figuring, it looked more like hard rock maple (the pattern) then curry maple. Are you saying for my first rifle, I should go with like a T/C kit? What do you think of purchasing a used Hawkn and doing a rebuild? Would that give me the experience I need to move to the next level (build from scratch)? The place I want to get to is building my own stuff, but I know its better to take bite size bits first then to go hog wild and fail at the first attempt. Thanks for your help on this.

 

[mikelange]

If you have your heart set on a Hawken-style rifle, and an ambition of eventually building your own guns from scratch, I would definitely start off with a T/C or similar kit. Most of the critical inletting is more-or-less complete, but there's work enough involved to give you a good sense of whether or not you want to move on to more complex projects.

Something to consider, when you speak of doing a rebuild on a used gun -- once you tackle the job of re-stocking the parts from your used piece, you are essentially building a gun from scratch. Whether your re-stock involves a blank or a precarved stock with at least some of the inletting done, the process is the same as if you were starting with the same piece of wood and a pile of new parts. The advantage to re-stocking a used piece is that you have the old stock on hand to consult as far as how and where the various parts should be installed in relation to one another. With a hooked-breech (i.e. Hawken-type) barrel system, this is a bigger help than you might realize. The hooked-breech halfstock jobs are considerably more complicated than building a fullstock with a fixed-tang breechplug.

Whichever route you decide to go, invest in one or two books, at least, dealing with building a muzzleloading rifle. Jim Johnston's "Building the Kentucky Rifle" is good, well-illustrated and written in a very basic style. "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle" is also good, and contains information on building halfstocks. Fred Stutzenberger's series of articles on building Hawken/halfstock rifles, which have appeared in Muzzle Blasts magazine over the past few years, are excellent, if you can acquire the back issues.

One last word, before I sign off and head out in search of the ferocious whitetail (it's opening day of firearms season here in the Northwest Territory): highly-figured curly maple is, one, a bear to work with, even for an experienced builder; and, two, not really correct on a rifle of Hawken pattern. Remember that the Hawkens and their ilk were intended for hard use in harder country, and also built to be sold at as low a cost as possible without sacrificing reliability and durability. Plain maple or walnut would be a better choice for a novice builder wanting a "real" Hawken. But I am speaking only in the sense of practicality and a degree of historical authenticity that, frankly, most people aren't all that interested in -- something they ought not catch hell for if that's not where their hearts are at. The fact you shoot a frontloader, period, makes you all right by me.

Good luck! I know this post is rather long, but quite often half the information is worse than no information at all.

 

Welcome to the Forum. First off did you wet the stock you got, most of the time a lot of the figure does not show until wetted. Just wipe on some water, and the figure will show. Next, as to your first build, the hawken is one of the tougher builds for a first timer. You have a two piece breech to deal with inletting, a rib to mount under the barrel, keys and tenons to align, among other things. The Lymans, and T/C's are true kits, in that almost everything is done for you, with pretty much only finishing to do, and they come with instructions. If you want a more challenging build in a plains type rifle, i would consider a full stock Leman, it's a plains/trade gun of the 1820-1830's era, the barrel is pinned, and it can be built as a flint or percussion. To do one of the kits from TOTW, MBS, or Pecatonica you will need a book or two on building, they're in the catalogs from where you would get your kit, which is really a collection of parts. One of these is "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" by Alexander. I would recommend getting the books first, and maybe a couple of the catalogs, do some research, ask some more questions on the Forum, then figure out which gun you want to build. It can be very scarey, and disconserting, whe you get a box from say TOTW, open it up, and all there is a bunch of unfinished pieces of metal, hardware, and wood with no instructions, just a bill of materials. So I guess what I'm saying is a little research, and planning are going to go a long way to make your first gun a pleasant endeavor. Good luck, don't ferget to ask for help, and have fun. Bill

 

[navaho]

Got another question, I am kinda looking at the Lyman vs. the T/C. Why, because I have a T/C (several) and want to get away from the brass but still want to cut my teeth on a "first gun". My question, are the parts blued on the lyman like they are on the T/C? Thanks for any help.

 

Nav, I can't answer that one, maybe someone else can, although I would think if it's a kit, and iron furniture, it would not be blued, and if it is its very easy to remove, and brown. Even with a Lyman kit, I would recommend you get one of the building books, it will help you with customizing you first build, and answer a lot of questions you will have. Bill

 

[TANSTAAFL]

If you want a plains type ML, the Lyman GPR kit (nipple or RH rock lock) might be a good first time project. Most of the work is done, but will still allow you to put in some of your own touchs. Will also give you pause as to pursuing another more complicated piece.

Either buy, or check out books from library on ML building. There are also several people who have web sites depicting how they built their ML's.

Here is just one, scroll down to "It's a Longrifle Thing."
[url] http://www.airbum.com/NeatSht.html[/url]

whatever you decide, good luck and good shooting.

 

[mark/wi]

The GPR kits do not come blued. I have a .54 in flint. Mark/Wi

 

[LRB]

Check your wood as the others suggested. I have always gotten better wood from TOW than how they described and rated it. One time they gave me the next grade up at the price of the lesser grade I wanted, because they did not have one in stock, and when it came in, it was even better than what they said.

 

[navaho]

Well after talking with you fine folks, here is what I decided, the wood still wasn't what I expected after I wet it so it is going back. I am going to buy a 54 Lyman Kit (baby steps) and from TOW get a half moon inlay and a patch box and put them in the stock. That will give me a little experience at, browning, working the wood, inlaying, etc. Probably not all the skills I will need but a start.

 

[gmww]

Please make a post of your project. I'm sort of in the same boat and would like to get some experience. Built the underhammer but it was basically a sand, brown, finish gun.

I'm really interested in how the inlay is done. I don't have power tools for the patch lock. I'd like to some day put wire inlay in too.

 

[AZ-Robert]

...it would not be blued, and if it is its very easy to remove...

Bill, what's the best way to do that?

 

[Old40Rod]

GPR kits are "in the white", the metal is not finished. A lot of people (including me) do their own browning of the metal parts with LMF browning/degreaser solution. If you follow the instructions, it is idiot proof.

GPR kits are great "first timers"... you have to do some work on the metal parts (filing and sanding) to finish them up, some wood work (particularly fitting the buttplate) and general fitting, sanding and finishing. As said before, enough to give you a general idea of some of the basics, and you end up with a great rifle when complete. The walnut stocks are a thing of beauty with hand rubbed oil finish, ... much better looking rifle gun than a T/C... IMHO.

 

[ladysmithtrading]

...it would not be blued, and if it is its very easy to remove...

Bill, what's the best way to do that?

I have removed bluing from several guns and browned them, i tried draw filing the first one, took forever!the others i used my dremel with one of the sanding drums to quick remove the bluing, then 80 and 100 sand paper on a steel sanding block, I used a 1/2 x 2" x4" piece of steel I have as a block, so not to round over the edges on the flat, you really dont want to go any smoother than 100 grit on the steel, browning solution needs something to bite to, degrease the barrel with auto brake cleaner in the can, then applied the browning solution, i use a cold brown, MSM cold brown seems to work best 4 me, I apply 3 to 4 coats before I ever start to card off the scale, apply coats till i get to the color I like, then a baking soda bath to nuetralize the acid, and a good oiling, not much to it just takes time, as i live in washington state I really dont have to worry bout it being humid enough to allow the parts to rust! Good luck! let us know how it turns out, Jim

 

[gmww]

I've never used this stuff but saw it in my catalog for removing rust and bluing.

Rust and Bluing remover

Might save some time and damage to your part by not having to sand.

 

What gmww listed is good, and you don't need abrasive either unless it was charcoal blued, that's deep in the metal. Simpleist way is to wipe it down with ATF. yep, that's right automatic trans fluid. Takes off most commercial blueing, as will naval jelly, but you need to wipe in on , leave only a few minutes, and then clean off. otherwise it starts pitting.No sanding or scrapeing necessary. Bill

 

[TANSTAAFL]

I did say most of the work is done, not all.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Ye old Naval Jelly from auto parts store or an equate type of same from Wally World works great.

 

[ladysmithtrading]

Bill, Thanks for the tip on the ATF I'll give it a try next time!